All the Zelda Games?! More like MODERATED FTW

[MrChlorophyll]

Well, I don't love Zelda. OoT was fine and good at the time when I was a youngin', but I haven't played any of the console games since then. Just a couple of the hand-helds.

And I'm sorry Spaff, you're not really 6 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag. I just wanted to say that because I haven't been able to call anyone that in a long time.

[eljay]

Heh, I wasn't comparing with Prime, I was talking strictly 2D metroids. Besides I'd probably consider Fusion the best in the series were it not for the guide telling me what to do.

Not going to find anything when exploring in Zelda? Are we playing the same games? There's nary an area without things to find.... (I mainly said that because of the start of the sentence, I like the way it sounds) Although it's often not story related it's always useful, and zelda's hardly about the story.

[toblix]

Nope, not going to happen. Ocarina just looks and feels too much like shit for me to play. Is the next Zelda game also on N64 or on the Gamecube?

[eljay]

You'll wanna skip Majora's Mask on the N64 (the next game) as it has the same visual style, which is now quite ugly (and obviously too much of a barrier for some).

Go straight to the gorgeous Wind Waker on the Gamecube, which has the flaw of the sailing later on, but otherwise is stellar (if you like zelda at all hehe )

[Salka]

What in the fuck is this?

I thought everyone loved Zelda! Why haven't you people said anything before?

Because every time I do, I get slapped down by a million Zelda people.

[vimes]

I am yet to play ANY Zelda games.

And of course, my opinion is still for sale, if anyone is interested.

[Udvarnoky]

You'll wanna skip Majora's Mask on the N64 (the next game) as it has the same visual style, which is now quite ugly (and obviously too much of a barrier for some).

Yes, you'll want to do that. If you're a fucking idiot. Majora's Mask is not a game that you skip. So it runs on the OoT engine and has the same visual style. Get the fuck over it. It's got more depth and originality than any other Zelda game, though Wind Waker definitely took a cue from some of its better aspects. And no person who says "In Zelda, I pretty much know there's nothing out there" can have possibly played a Zelda game for over fifteen seconds. Majora's Mask has TONS of voluntary shit to do and find, including 52 heart pieces (the most of any zelda?), and they're not all just at the bottom of a lake or something but in fact involve doing all kinds of weird and awesome shit like thwarting the invasion of cow-abducting aliens. All the various side quests probably amount to 50% of the game's content (and considerably more of the game's awesomeness, so if you stupidly just beat the game and quit you missed out on the whole game), as the main quest is relatively short in comparison to other Zeldas. The game also has all these little stories going on in the background and you can track down where certain characters are hanging out at a certain point in the three day time line even though you don't need to and you can talk to all the NPCs while wearing different masks just because you want to see what they'll say about it (much like performing your different powers on people in Psychonauts). There's just so much stuff to find in this game, and it's also got this wonderfully bleak tone (that you know, doesn't stem from having environments with a lot of mist and brown textures but from the story) and it feels more like a personal, side adventure than one of an epic scale (similar to Link's Awakening). If you passed it over because you thought it was just an OoT clone or because you don't like the way it looks then at the very least you missed out on something really good and are sadly an idiot.

Or you could just go straight to Wind Waker, which is also a great game.

[eljay]

Hey, I agree with you 100%

Majora's Mask is superb and I think far superior to OoT, but I am pretty certain that if toblix is unable to play OoT beyond the starting zone, he won't get into MM.

[toblix]

Majora's Mask is superb and I think far superior to OoT, but I am pretty certain that if toblix is unable to play OoT beyond the starting zone, he won't get into MM.

He? How do you know I'm not a girl?

Also, I feel like such a turd for not being able to play Ocarina. I've never been a graphics whore, but it's just that ugly 3d is so... fucking ugly. Old 2D games, at least those with a modicum of different colors and stuff can still look totally awesome, like most old adventure games. I still replay Fate of Atlantis and I'm in love with every single screen. Old 3D games? I shit on them.

For example, just thinking about trying to replay Simon the Sorcerer 3D today... See, I just swallowed a load of my own vomit!

[Udvarnoky]

But Ocarina of Time isn't even comparable to Simon 3D. Yes, we all know 2D ages better than 3D and that Fate of Atlantis still looks great, but you know you didn't even get the damn shield. You haven't played the game.

[eljay]

He? How do you know I'm not a girl?

I made a judgement call based on your general attitude, demeanor, style of writing and basically what you say.....

Was I wrong?

[toblix]

But Ocarina of Time isn't even comparable to Simon 3D. Yes, we all know 2D ages better than 3D and that Fate of Atlantis still looks great, but you know you didn't even get the damn shield. You haven't played the game.

Well, the second time I got the sword and the shield and fought some flowers and ran around inside the tree, climbing vines and shooting spiders and jumping from platform to moving plaform and it was all incredibly boring. This 3D thing is just too different from what I like about the two Zelda games I've played through for me to like.

[LOPcagney]

You'll wanna skip Majora's Mask on the N64 (the next game) as it has the same visual style, which is now quite ugly (and obviously too much of a barrier for some).

Go straight to the gorgeous Wind Waker on the Gamecube, which has the flaw of the sailing later on, but otherwise is stellar (if you like zelda at all hehe )

I thought the big draw to Majora's Mask was that with the N64 expansion pack, the graphics were updated and beautified as much as possible for the system.

[miffy495]

Holy crap Yufster, I can see what you mean about people jumping up and going apeshit when you say you don't like Zelda. Personally, I love the games, but can easily understand why so many people don't. A lot of it for me is the atmosphere, and if that didn't draw me as much as it does I wouldn't rate the games nearly as highly as I do. (This is specific to the 3D Zeldas. The 2D ones are just flat out brilliant.) The jumping always pissed me off, to be honest, as well as how hidden so much of the game is. It's great to have a bunch of things to find, but when I need to start doing the optional things because otherwise I won't have a life bar big enough to survive the next dungeon, it gets a bit irritating.

Again, love Zelda. TP was one of my favorite games from last year. Not my favorite, but top 5 sort of thing, y'know? Totally understand why some people don't though. This is why my recommendation to toblix was to look up Minish Cap next. They (gender-neutral. Happy?) seem to enjoy the 2D Zeldas, and that was a damn good one. If you don't like Ocarina, and (after adjusting for graphical considerations) the gameplay just doesn't appeal, then why torture yourself with more?

[n0wak]

Zelda games don't do a very good job of creating a real world

See, I think quite the opposite. What I've always loved about the Zelda games, especially the 2D ones, was the world design. Just being able to go around and explore. Very defined regions and communities. A lot of charm and character and that kind of dread that below the surface there was always something similar -- be it dungeons or portals into the dark world or what not.

To me, the Zelda games have been all about exploring the world more than anything else. Story is irrelevant.

And as a matter of subjective context: I thought Oblivion was the most unfocused plodding snoozefest that I've ever played.

[Thrik]

I'm surprised you're surprised there're people who don't like Zelda. I always thought they were a bit of a niche thing until a few years ago, and to an extent they still are. I mean there're loads of vocal fans and critics who sing their praises, but if you go talk to some more mainstream gamers (who I like to dub 'Blind Buyers'), you'll find that very few of them have so much as looked at a Zelda game, let alone know what they're all about.

Then if they do try one, they'll be put off immediately by the lack of instant action and need for exploration. Incidentally, these same people dissed me for saying Beyond Good and Evil was good. Man do I need to find more cliquey gamer friends in real life.

Tangent aside, Zelda isn't for everyone. If you absolutely hate every aspect of Ocarina of Time, I find it very difficult to believe you'll enjoy the later 3D titles, regardless of my own love for them (with the exception of Twilight Princess which I haven't tried). However, do at least give the beautiful GameCube Wind Waker a go on the GameCube or Wii as when not let down by an emulator it's quite possibly the most beautiful game on the platform, and has much tighter gameplay than Ocarina of Time which in all honesty was a pioneering classic in its day (I was in awe at the graphics then) but has been battered by age.

[Aussie Ben]

This is also true. At work, my friend and I were listening to another friend who had bought a copy of Zelda to go with his newly acquired Wii. "Here I am, seeing everyone say "WOW THIS SLINGSHOT IS AWESOME I TOTALLY WANT A SLINGSHOT! SLINGSHOT SLINGSHOT SLINGSHOT!" So off I go to get a slingshot - just sitting there, in the store. But, OF COURSE, I can't actually buy a SLINGSHOT!"

And really, it makes logical sense - the first thing you'd want to do after hearing about the desperate pleas for a slingshot is, you know, BUY A SLINGSHOT. But, having being trained in the (perhaps Gabriel Knight III-esque?) ways of Zelda, any gamer who has played a couple of games of Zelda before knows that this doesn't mean "Go buy a slingshot". No! In its cryptic fashion, it means "Oh hey, here's this awesome item but there's no way you'll be able to get it yet! Why don't you go fishing or knock down beehives or something, you loser. Wow, what a loser you are for not knowing that! Loser."

Similarly, while a Zelda fan knows that a wall with two torches on it = BOMB THE WALL!!!, your average game player who didn't play Zelda for twelve years will think "Oh a wall, now where's that exit?". Some of the stuff simply doesn't read well to those who haven't played repeated adventures in the series, and looking at it from an outsider's perspective, some of this stuff is really cryptic. Like Karl Pilkington cryptic. Craptic, as it were.

[miffy495]

As I believe I said in the TP thread when it came out, most people that I know think that it's the hardest Zelda. This is because they've only ever played OOT and don't have the conventions memorized. I blazed through it, and actually find each Zelda to be substantially easier than the one before it. No exit? Start hucking bombs. No objects of interest in a dead end room? Either trigger an enemy fight to make a chest appear or look for an out of the way hook target/weird arrow-in-the-eyeball switch/torch/whatever. If you haven't been going from Zelda to Zelda since you were 9 years old (or whatever. You know what I mean) then you wouldn't have a clue what to do.

The only exception to this that I've seen is my sister. She went throught TP quite quickly despite having never played a Zelda before. Of course, all those Zeldas that I've played over the years, she'd been sitting beside me watching me play and suggesting things if I got stuck. It got so that back when I was playing WW, we had to synchronize schedules so she could see all the cutscenes.

Long story short? Zelda's puzzles are, from an objective standpoint, really fucking dumb. Those of us who love Zelda seem to because we were watching them develop and they've become second nature to us. In some bizzare way, they make perfect sense. If you weren't there while these puzzles evolved though, Zelda would actually be a pretty easy game to hate.

[Thrik]

It's very true. When you think about it, pretty much everything in Zelda is so unbelievably non-apparent that when it's a wonder anybody ever finishes them. This is why I'm amazed that my 9-year-old sister burned through Ocarina of Time in a few months last year, despite having never played a Zelda game before. Perhaps it's easier to be introduced to the logic murder style of Zelda at a younger age, explaining why those who've played since Ocarina of Time (ie: not started recently) aren't too put off by it? I dunno.

[toblix]

Incidentally, these same people dissed me for saying Beyond Good and Evil was good. Man do I need to find more cliquey gamer friends in real life.

I just wanted to get on the record that, though I apparently loathe Ocarina of Time, BG&E is quite possibly my favourite game ever.

[BooJaka]

All this talk of Zelda has got me intrigued and so, despite clearly being warned against it all the way through this thread, I've decided to pick up a copy of Ocarina of Time from eBay. Good work people I'll report back with my findings like I'm sure you care

[toblix]

All this talk of Zelda has got me intrigued and so, despite clearly being warned against it all the way through this thread, I've decided to pick up a copy of Ocarina of Time from eBay. G--

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[miffy495]

Well, I for one am interested to find out whether or not our assumptions are true and a Zelda rookie is completely put off by the whole thing. I feel a bit bad for BooJaka having to be the guinea pig, but someone had to do it. Best of luck to you, sir.

[Aussie Ben]

I geniuinely hope you like it and get as much pleasure out of discovering all the fun little bits and new puzzles that I did. And remember: two torches = BOMB THE WALL!

[BooJaka]

Just one quick question. When I get one from ebay, does it really matter if I get the instructions with it? There seems to be quite a big price difference