A wonderful topic about browser games

[Marek]

Hay ne1 playing browsar gaems?

By which I mean games that are played in the browser (minus casual puzzle/word games that you can download from portals). I'm talking about things like ARGs or Browser RPGs.

Earlier this year I played Kingdom of Loathing for two months, which is hilarious and very well designed (structurally it's a bit of a mess, but there's a lot of creative and fun ideas in it). Another really cool web game is Urban Dead. I also played this Maffia RPG for a while, which is shit in many ways, but our company did contract work on it in 2005 so I kinda had to play it. It's ridiculously popular for what it is.

Most of these games are kinda like text adventures or MUDs disguised as websites.

Has the intersphereblogotubeweb produced any other games worth trying? (RuneScape is disqualified... just because.)

[Roderick]

I was addicted to Kingdom of Loathing for a month after I saw it in Marek's sig. After that I couldn't be bothered by its endless clickfest. It is worthwhile though, lots of stuff to do, and funny, but after a while everything starts to bore unless it has stellar gameplay to compensate.

Otherwise I don't know a lot. Is Maple Story something? It's free. I don't know. I know it's coming out for DS, which kicks ass, but apart from that: clueless.

[Marek]

Well, that's a client-based game. You don't play it on the web, you download it and start it up like any regular game.

It's apparently pretty good though.

[Wrestlevania]

Another really cool web game is Urban Dead.

Celebrated my 1st in-game birthday last week and I still play whenever I can. Heard of The GMT Breakfast Club perchance, Marek?

I've also been playing Nexus War since helping with the alpha testing way back when. It's grown into quite a fantastic - not to mention thoroughly addictive - MMORPG now and I really like it, especially with all the great faction stuff (such as honour and karma). For those interested in anything MMO, I suggest you read the game's introduction on the Nexus War wiki double-quick, then have a browse around to learn about the excellent character classes.

KoL I played for a time, but it didn't hold my interest much longer than a couple of months.

[n0wak]

I used to play ArchMage a hell of a lot back in the day

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archmage_(computer_game)

and I mean, like, BACK in the day circa 1998. Started playing it in computer class cause I didn't really have a decent computer at home nor any internet access and it was, really, my first foray into online gaming. Massively mutliplayer, even. When we finally got a computer and internet access at the end of '98, I could finally play it from home! And I did. A LOT.

But then I got bored of it and never played a game of its like since -- god knows there have been a large number of them (and many that I saw were obviously influenced by ArchMage). The learning curves for these kinds of games are way too steep unless you are really persistent or have a large posse backing you up as you figure things out. S'why I never bothered with them again.

That said, I know a bunch of people that played Travian a lot for a while

http://travian.com/

[n0wak]

ALSO DON'T FORGET PROGRESS QUEST

http://www.progressquest.com/

[MeesChees]

Dope Wars was mildly diverting for about a month. Me and some of my well gangsta mates made a cartel and got into the top 10 on the server or whatever. One of us infiltrated another group, was given power over the cartel, kicked them all out, changed the password and changed their picture to a crude drawing of a knob!

Not very sporting I know, but they deserved it for being drug dealers.

[cye]

i hav been playin this strategy game. it involves a large number of players who you will meet in game. you start off with your own home planet with 4 different races to choose from each with their own pros and cons. the object of this game is to build your own space ship fleet and travel the galaxy to expand your own empire by colonising other planets. you can play as a merchant that delivers and sells goods or even become a pirate that raids others ships and steal their cago. his game takes time and alot of planning where alliances can be formed to get yourself a huge fleet.

this is your star map where u can see all the other planets and players in your field of view

the building screen where u update your tech

Engines for your fleet!

if you guys are interested give www.stars-empire.com a try

[Marek]

I think the problem with Kingdom of Loathing is that after a month or-so, the jokes have worn out and your attention is redirected to the core game, which in some cases isn't that good. I had to deal with a ridiculous difficulty spike. There was some kind of uber boss I couldn't defeat, and people told me it was because of the character class I had chosen. I didn't want to become a part of the community (despite the chatrooms being totally hilarious) so I gave up there.

What I think is genius, however, is the Adventures system. They're like action points and you get 40 of them a day, but you can boost that quite a bit by cooking and eating various types of food, and mixing and drinking various cocktails (while avoiding drunkenness). This aspect is really addicitive and makes the game have a lot more in common with something like Animal Crossing (you play a little bit each day) than an MMO (you play all the time). I also like that Adventures are generally used for combat/exploration moves that always have potential for rewards, and not every frickin' tiny thing you do in the game. There's other browser games that are just waaaaay too AP based.

NexusWar looks interesting! I'm clicking around in it now. It does a couple of interface things that are nice. Will dive deeper.

And despite the possible spammy nature of the above post, I will check that out as well.

I've got question. A lot of these games are good for only a month or so, and then you usually lose interest. What would keep you in an online game for a longer time? Are graphics a factor? Or maybe the discovery of new areas?

[Roderick]

I agree; the cooking and mixing systems worked really well in Kingdom of Loathing. In the small period I played I was constantly looking up recipes, just to maximize the amount of adventures I could spend every day.

I wouldn't actually know what would keep me addicted to an online game. I only ever played a few, so I don't feel an authority. Even Animal Crossing became boring after a while, so I actually think it's somewhat of an impossibility to make a game that stays interesting all the time. As a rule, everything becomes boring after weeks or months. As for keeping your players interested; it'll be a combination of stuff. Graphics need to be adequate and polished (not necessarily high-tech), there should be some hook that makes you like the game, a sense of progress and importantly; the ability to return easily after a pauze without having to start again or feel lost. BUt I don't think there are set rules or anything. Maybe it's all a total fluke what works and what doesn't.

[Wrestlevania]

I've got question. A lot of these games are good for only a month or so, and then you usually lose interest. What would keep you in an online game for a longer time? Are graphics a factor? Or maybe the discovery of new areas?

Well, for me it's about community--most specifically, team-mates.

I noticed you avoided the KoL community which I certainly wouldn't blame you for. I despised the main (unofficial) forums which sprang up around Urban Dead because it was choked by a core group of griefers, who mobbed the boards 24/7. However, this did in fact lead to a very good thing happening; the RRF - one of the best-known zombie groups in the game - split off and created their own forums. Each of the RRF's core strike teams were then given their own private area of the forums so they could organise themselves in private, away from the griefing. Because of this, our strike team is now possibly the longest serving of any group in the entire game; we also celebrated out 2,000th kill a few weeks back, which shocked many players when we made the announcement in the main game's forums.

In Nexus War it's the same, but the interface is far superior in terms of teamplay, which has lead many players to create multiple characters and join a different faction with each. I created a NW version of our UD group not so long ago and several of our most dedicated members are now playing in both games successfully.

I think the variety and contrast between Urban Dead's very basic, visceral gameplay and Nexus War's complex and rewarding role-playing is what keeps me interested in both. But overall it's my squadmates; the group has been together over a year now and I joined - purely by chance - right at the start. We've seen and done everything there is to do in UD but it's the people that keep the game alive. Even after so long it's often still a scream to play, because of who I play alongside.

And any Idle Thumbs member is more than welcome to join us in either game that takes your fancy; PM me if you'd like to.

[Marek]

Interesting! What you say matches one of my little theories. I played KoL as, essentially, a singleplayer game, and only used the chatrooms if I needed a hint. Sure, it was nice when other players gave me a buff in there, but that's not the sort of social glue that keeps you connected.

In the game I'm currently designing (this reveals my partial motivation for starting this thread ) you immediately start out in a small group of about 5 players, which can grow to up to 30. These groups are in turn part of factions. And within the groups are different roles that may, at times, have different interests or motivations. I'm hoping those things (as well as a few other features) will make it multiplayer focused and will make most of the social interaction happen outside of the forums and inside team forums, private messages, etc.

Forums, inevitably, become the home of griefers or whiners, and I can't think of any solid strategies to really prevent that.

Rodi: thanks for reminding me of the ability to easily get back into a game. It's easy to lose sight of that, and it's a very important point.

I think if you're really genre/game agnostic (which is likely if you post on a forum like this) you'll usually get bored with stuff after a month no matter what. I mean I even got bored with WoW after 2 months. But I know people who have been playing Animal Crossing casually / on-and-off for over a year, and that's the sort of sustainability I find very interesting, both from a game design and a commercial perspective.

[Wrestlevania]

I don't think there are set rules or anything. Maybe it's all a total fluke what works and what doesn't.

I've not played an online MMO-like game yet that didn't suffer from "The Dip".

It's the point when, once you've graduated from being an absolute beginner to being comfortable with the system(s), location(s), equipment, etc., you realise you have a very long grind ahead of you before maxing-out your skills. (I'm generalising, but most players continue role-playing so that they can become powerful and do whatever they please in a tangible world.)

That's an inherent problem with role-playing in my experience, which the community/team-work aspect makes up for. I don't think I would have stuck with tabletop AD&D as long as I did if it weren't for the players, and I know for certain I wouldn't have stuck with either Urban Dead nor Nexus War if it weren't for the people I play alongside; and sometimes against. Having a variety of good opponents is equally important.

[Marek]

Question... besides the fact that you're part of a group of players, does politics figure into the equation? Things like who's attacking who, or players switching to another group, or maybe leadership change. Are those strong elements in the web games you play?

I've been thinking about that because, as you say, when you begin to see through the game universe and really notice the level grind it becomes so shit and repetitive. Complex social dynamics seem like a good layer to have on top of that because people will hopefully create their own motivations and their own drama.

[Wrestlevania]

Question... besides the fact that you're part of a group of players, does politics figure into the equation? Things like who's attacking who, or players switching to another group, or maybe leadership change. Are those strong elements in the web games you play?

It's relevant to what's offered by the system being played.

Urban Dead, as I've mentioned already, does not have a complex in-game social system. So no, the changes you mentioned have relatively little effect in the main on how play continues and people feel about playing the game.

Nexus War on the otherhand is fundamentally a social-based system, from the ground up. You can fly solo but that's not how it's been designed to be played. Factions can be created and controlled by any user in the game. Once created, factions have four different ranks within them. These ranks are differentiated by the amount of control over the faction players of each rank have. Typically, you have very few generals and lots of foot soldiers. I've noticed that when players are promoted there is never any comeback from other players within the same faction. However, when people are demoted the sky's the limit on just how far the demotees will go with their protestations; finding and killing the person in-game who demoted them, turning on faction mates, stealing or wasting as much equipment, weapons, armour and ammo in the faction stronghold as possible. The list is almost endless.

Nexus War is well designed because it allows for - and even encourages - people to play the game however they wish. The game also allows for politics without limit; you can actively assign other factions as allies, friends, neutral, enemies or arch-enemies. Espionage and deception are easily carried out also as you are free to leave a faction at any time and then join another (assuming they either have an "open door" policy or else you've managed to get an invitation -- usually just a case of registering on the faction's forum and simply asking for one). Once in the new faction, people will ingrain themselves within the group, feeding information via meta-gaming (forums, IM, IRC, etc.) to their previous faction. It's been done many times already; spies coordinate a raid on the new faction from within and then "turn coat" once their true faction mates have smashed their way inside.

And perhaps it goes without saying, but this causes massive ripples in the gamespace. Similarly, allying with a faction to assist in attacking another means the political landscape of the game constantly shifts -- it's possibly the hardest thing to keep up with, and simply impossible if you don't actively meta-game in some way.

This is why I said the community aspect helps move you through "The Dip"; it makes the game feel alive and challenging, without seeming wholly artificial or NPC-driven. You should come along and play.

[vimes]

I hate school network administrators...' cause of them I never had the chance to access this stuff... or only the one 'turn-a-day' games, but then I usually forgot about it and die miserabily.

Maybe people get bored of these games just because more than often the progression is based on time spending and not the player's ability to understand the world and play a coherent part in it.

Then again, what would I know about it... f'ing admin.