Three Moves Ahead 583: Religion Revisited

[Rob Zacny]

Three Moves Ahead 583:

Religion Revisited
Len, Jon, and Ian kick off what is to be an ongoing series revisiting some big ideas in strategy games that we haven't covered since Ye Olde Podcast Days of Yore. This time around, we're taking a fresh look at religion, which we last gave its own show waaay back in 2009. How have strategy games changed their depiction of spiritual practices in the last decade or so, and how are they still stuck in certain ruts? We also discuss some of our favorite non-standard takes on religion like Frostpunk and Terra Invicta, and share some thoughts on what we'd like to see done differently.

Sid Meier's Civilization, Crusader Kings 3, Victoria 3, Terra Invicta, Frostpunk, Pentiment, Workers and Resources: Soviet Republic, Old World

 

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[MoLAoS]

For no reason, no need to look deeper, don't mind me, I'm very excited for the potential "revisiting major facets of strategy games and how we have or haven't advanced them to the level we have focused on combat and maybe economics." Really wanna hear people talk about what is missing in religion, diplomacy, politics, intrigue, and other stuff. Logistics also I guess.

[BobaFrac]

I think about the religion mechanic in Sid Meier's Colonization often. There isn't much to it: building churches and allocating preachers to them produces crosses. Crosses lure immigrants from the religious oppression of Europe to the freedom of your new world colony. First seeing it as a young teen in 1994, it made no sense to me. Learning more deeply about the history of immigration to the colonies later lit the lightbulb for me: so that's what they were modeling! It is a limited representation but fit for purpose within the game.

 

The discussion of the religious faction in Terra Invicta, and the differences in goals between real-world religions, brought to mind the perennial object of discussion: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri. The factions are working within the same mechanics but still communicate a different set of priorities, a different ethos, with their bonuses and limitations on the Social Engineering grid. It captures some of that different outlook on the world that probably should be included in a religion model. At least in the main game, I never played much Alien Crossfire.

 

Modeling a religion as a sort of orthogonal authority, like the Papacy in the Euro-centric Paradox games, is interesting in a strategy game since it introduces another axis of power to struggle along. But, this probably only really captures the spirit of Catholic religion, given the central authority.

 

I remember much positive discussion of the different saints and shrines in Darklands, but never played it myself.

[Gamling]

Thanks for your pod I usually find it very interesting but today I felt that you should have read the book Dominion by Tom Holland and then you can redo this talk. This was quite superficial. You don't really touch on how the worldview or religion will deeply affect a society. In Rome or most other places in history the weak was frowned upon. It wasn´t until the west got christian the idea that all people had a value got wide spread. It wasn´t until the christians saw the creation as something material that follows Gods laws that science could start for real. Before that they didn't expect nature to behave law bound and repeatable. A civ game or a society simulator should really try to emulate what specific belies do to the culture. Not all beliefs or ideas are equal in value or outcome. It would be so much more interesting to see how your civ evolve by the belies you chose. Strange men standing standing on top of pillars might not give the best buffs compared to for instance Matthew 25:40 "Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of mine you did for me".