The Wire

[n0wak]

Stuff was just written less subtly in the second season, plus blue collar white people are not all that interesting to begin with. It is a good thing that second season doesn't come back to pollute the rest of the series at all. Whereas all the other seasons seem to build more overtly one on the other, the second one is a weird little tangent.

See, I don't buy this at all. The second season fits into everything just as much as any other season. I mean, the dock workers -- ignored by the city about as much as the junkies in season three or the kids in season four -- do what they do because they really don't have many options or even hope. Their little smuggling operations and schemes to make a living are as relevant to the greater theme of the series as anything else.

And, really, the ramifications of the second season are strong since it establishes where the drugs are coming from (sort of) and how they ruin the lives of people that aren't dealing and/or using, establishes Prop Joe a bit more and starts what eventually leads to the "co-op", establishes certain levels of corruption in connection to the international drug trade (not just a local Baltimore problem) with that FBI informant, further fuels the politics over police work theme (in the form of the personal vendetta between Valchek and Sobotka) and, greatly affecting season three, creates the tension between Stringer and Avon. And really early in the season at that.

So I don't consider it a tangent at all.

[MrHoatzin]

Almost all of the people who first showed up in season two had no bearing on the rest of the series, they never appear again. The exceptions are Beadie Russell (

who is a supporting character in one of the side stories, not any of the central ones

), Brother Mouzone (

who casually comes back to kill Stringer Bell, an important task, but his revenge is fairly banal compared to the motives of all the other people participating in, or knowing about, but not interfering with Bell's death

), Sergey Malatov (

who is there to be the butt of the same joke for the third time

), Nick Sabotka (

who yells at the mayor in the capacity of an extra+

), Spiros Vondas (

who represents the important grand theme of the second season, the only thing that will weave itself into the other seasons prominently, the wholesale trade

), the Greek (

who nods in a closing montage three seasons after his debut

), and Clarence Royce (

who really only appears for one scene, to be established as existing in the universe in anticipation of the third season

). In their wishy-washiness, these exceptions highlight the non-interference of second season in the rest of the story, more than they celebrate its contributions to the rest of the story.

No doubt, second season fills some important parts of the picture (and you bring them up yourself), but that is because The Wire doesn't waste its critique on meaningless institutions. That is true for the entirety of its run. That is why it is a great show.

What is interesting to me about the season is the striving of the stevedores to remain petty and therefore keep their virtue intact while they have such obvious access to far more impressive avenues of crime. Nick and Ziggy and Frank flirt with heavier crime, but fail at it because they don't come from inherently broken communities, because they believe in an alternative, honest life. The black kids in the ghetto fail to see options altogether.

All I am saying is that the petty thievery of white blue collar mopes is not an important section of the grand structure of The Wire, it is just an ornamental side tower that shares a flying buttress or two with the main fortification.

[MrHoatzin]

You're not talking about acting, you're talking about characterisation, but whatever.

Didn't I say in the very bit that you were replying to:

The only time I ever really noticed shoddy acting was in season two, and that was really because the new characters were relatively badly conceived.

The onus for badly conceived characters doesn't fall on the actors. I didn't mean to imply that, and I don't think I did. :shifty:

Still, any badly conceived characters in The Wire are far above the well-conceived characters in the rest of TV programming.

[Thyroid]

I watched the first episode of The Wire, and was so impressed I went out and, ahem, bought the entire series. My reasoning is that it's good, it's gotten some notable recommendations, and that the writing is so far removed from the kind of thing I put out when I try my hand at something. I could use the influence: I need my own writing to be grounded in reality a bit more, instead of being just, oh, like Monkey Island (not necessarily of the same quality).

[Lu]

Ooooh yes, the Wire. You will not regret it. Absolutely phenomenal show.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I watched the first episode of The Wire, and was so impressed I went out and, ahem, bought the entire series. My reasoning is that it's good, it's gotten some notable recommendations, and that the writing is so far removed from the kind of thing I put out when I try my hand at something. I could use the influence: I need my own writing to be grounded in reality a bit more, instead of being just, oh, like Monkey Island (not necessarily of the same quality).

It may sound like a frivolous thing to do, but I doubt you'd find anyone here who would think that was a waste of money. A very wise investment!

[Thyroid]

I just wanted to say that the first two episodes of The Wire are the best thing that ever happened to me. They were flawless. Where has this show been all my life?

I'll have to watch the rest in the summer, unfortunately, but it's going to be a long wait.

It was only shown at a handful on cinemas even here in London. DVD is the answer

Not in this place.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I just wanted to say that the first two episodes of The Wire are the best thing that ever happened to me. They were flawless. Where has this show been all my life?

I'll have to watch the rest in the summer, unfortunately, but it's going to be a long wait.

Good gravy... Usually most people don't start enjoying it until about midway through (once they've gotten used to it and it's starting to come together). It seems like you're off to a roaring start... shame you have to wait until summer

[Thyroid]

My copy of The Wire: the Complete Collection arrived recently. I've only seen one episode (re-watched the one I'd already seen) but I already am a huge fan of the show. They clearly know what the fuck they're doing.

I've had very little time to myself, lately, so I haven't done much of anything, but I rented A Serious Man today and plan to see it. I was writing a short story with that title, remembered that the Coens had done something similar and so I want to see how our takes compare. Should be fun.

I've also developed an interest in Akira Kurosawa's movies, so I'm going to see some of those at some point this summer. Ikiru looks promising.

[Rueler]

The Wire is a show that I REALLY need to watch.

[SGP]

O M G. I can say with absolute confidence that The Wire is the best TV show I have ever seen in my life. If anyone out there isn't sure about the show, try the first 4 or so episodes. It takes some time to pick up, but once it does it is magnificent.

This review on Amazon does a great job of explaining the show's nature and value: http://www.amazon.com/review/R3IVA90MIM72O/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm

[Sully907]

I finally started watching HBO's The Wire after all these years(yes I know I'm lame for waiting this long) and even just three episodes in, it's already as great as everyone said it was. Believable, gritty, endlessly entertaining with characters that seem familiar by not cliche at all. I've got a lot of catching up to do!

[Gwardinen]

I finally started watching HBO's The Wire after all these years(yes I know I'm lame for waiting this long) and even just three episodes in, it's already as great as everyone said it was. Believable, gritty, endlessly entertaining with characters that seem familiar by not cliche at all. I've got a lot of catching up to do!

I somehow ended up trailing off the Wire half way through season four and I've never gotten back into it. I feel like I'm doing myself a disservice by not finishing the series, as there's only one and a half seasons left (though perhaps I should rewatch the first half of season four to really know what's going on) but it's strangely daunting.

I actually have the DVD box sets of the seasons just sitting there, taunting me. One day I'll finish the fight.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I somehow ended up trailing off the Wire half way through season four and I've never gotten back into it. I feel like I'm doing myself a disservice by not finishing the series, as there's only one and a half seasons left (though perhaps I should rewatch the first half of season four to really know what's going on) but it's strangely daunting.

I actually have the DVD box sets of the seasons just sitting there, taunting me. One day I'll finish the fight.

Same thing happened to me, but I didn't watch half of four, only about three episodes. No idea why, but I know what you mean about "daunting". Of course, I did finally finish it and loved it!

I went back and watched the first episodes after the series finale and it's interesting because Season 1 is WAY slower than Season 5.

[Thyroid]

I finished the first season of The Wire yesterday. Good shit, though not without some niggles. It is exceptionally well-written, cast, and acted, very well produced and well directed piece of work.

Too many goddamn stand-out moments for me to list, but I'll tell you what: the scene where

Poot and Bodie kill Wallace at his home

is the single most heart-wrenching thing I have ever had to witness filmed for TV. The season always paces things out in this deliberate manner to make the scenes that matter more tense, emotional and/or interesting; it also makes you want to think one way, and then the other, before it pulls a rug out from underneath your feet, which - again, given the pacing - makes those scenes much more effective.

What fascinates me so much is that they do this without making it feel like a plotted story. It feels realistic, though it's probably plausible at best; there's plot twists, but I didn't think of them that way until after the fact.

I'm looking forward to little elements they've introduced this season paying-off in the next four.

Bubs's usage, his friend's lack of luck, Kima's girlfriend, and - I guess this one isn't little - Omar and whether or not what he does is a good thing.

There's more, but it's a lot to keep up with.

The characters - with one exception, and it's a perfectly justifiable one - are all rich, interesting human beings. I mean that: not once did I think that these were characters. I did, however, often wonder about the morals and the tribulations of these individual people. It was always kind of weird when an episode ended, because I'd snap back to reality and remember that these people weren't real.

Little pleasures: Although David Simon is obviously the man behind the season, and its best writer, he didn't write my favourite two episodes: the George Pelecanos one ("Cleaning Up")

(the one where they kill Wallce)

and "Game Day"

(the one with basketball)

.

Personal pleasure: I could tell whether or not it was a David Simon episode from the first 10 seconds. I like that. I was confused on the last one, thinking that parts were clearly written by Simon, but that the last two lines were not - that they felt like something Ed Burns had written - and was very happy to read that they both wrote it together. As sad as this may sound, I high-fived myself.

Personal pleasure, II: A lot of the ideas I thought-up when watching the first two episodes were things they ran with, down to specific execution. I know it doesn't mean anything, but I like to imagine it means I have a good writer's instincts encoded in me somewhere.

Basically, if you haven't seen The Wire, do so now. It is excellence itself. :tup:

Onwards to season two. Soon. When I have the free time again.

[toblix]

Personal pleasure: I could tell whether or not it was a David Simon episode from the first 10 seconds. I like that. I was confused on the last one, thinking that parts were clearly written by Simon, but that the last two lines were not - that they felt like something Ed Burns had written - and was very happy to read that they both wrote it together. As sad as this may sound, I high-fived myself.

Holy moly, I had never even considered that was possible.

[Scrobbs]

It was always kind of weird when an episode ended, because I'd snap back to reality and remember that these people weren't

This, more than anything else for me. I'd never seen anything like it, and as the credits rolled and I got up to go and make a cuppa or nip to the bog, it took a few seconds to shake off Bal-tee-moor.

Currently on my third run through, on series 3...

[ThunderPeel2001]

What fascinates me so much is that they do this without making it feel like a plotted story. It feels realistic, though it's probably plausible at best; there's plot twists, but I didn't think of them that way until after the fact.

Yes, they did a great job because they tried to look at everything from every angle, instead of taking the easy way out and making someone a "baddie", or whatever. Glad to hear you enjoyed it.

You might be interested to know some of the background: David Simon was a reporter for the Baltimore Sun. He wrote on the crime desk, and unlike the other writers, he liked it their. When he felt that the quality of the newspaper was sinking, it broke his heart, so he asked for a year off to write a book. He decided to ask the local Homicide Division if he could shadow them for a year, live alongside them and watch everything they do, all with the aim of publishing it.

For a reason that he still doesn't know to this day, and against all odds, the person he asked said yes. (They died before Simon could ask, and obviously at the time he didn't want to jinx his luck -- he just went along with it.)

So he became the first journalist ever to be given complete, unfettered access to a Homicide Division. He did that for a year, all day, every day, and then wrote the book: Homicide: A Year On the Killing Streets (highly recommended, btw). This was later turned into the TV show Homicide: Life on the Streets in a compromised form, but one that still won accolades.

After his first book was published, he decided to look at the other side of the story with an ex-police that he'd befriended during his research, Ed Burns.

Burns had been a homicide detective who got to work on several special cases, like the one seen in the first season of The Wire. In fact, the story of the first season is heavily based on a real case that Burns worked on. It's so much Burns's story that he's listed as a co-writer on every episode of the first season. By the time Simon was looking to write his second book, Burns had retired after 20 years of service. (He later became an inner-city school teacher, an experience his likened to Vietnam.)

The two of them then spent a year on the "worst" drug corners in Baltimore, getting to know everyone they could. As you'd imagine, people were initially reticent, suspicious of these two new guys hanging around... one of them a former cop (although, I don't think he got recognized very often), but people soon got used to them being there, and went back to their day-to-day existence.

They got deep into the so-called "dregs" of society, the people that "don't matter", even to the homicide department. Most murders are drug or gang related, and there's a feeling that those people aren't part of "our" society, so they don't get reported in the news, etc. Simon and Burns wanted to find out more about them, who these people were, the choices/problems they faced, and the lives they lived.

The result was the book, "The Corner: A Year in the Life of an Inner-City Neighborhood", co-written by Simon and Burns.

So when you say it feels "realistic", there's a damn good reason for it

The characters - with one exception, and it's a perfectly justifiable one - are all rich, interesting human beings. I mean that: not once did I think that these were characters. I did, however, often wonder about the morals and the tribulations of these individual people. It was always kind of weird when an episode ended, because I'd snap back to reality and remember that these people weren't real.

Personal pleasure, II: A lot of the ideas I thought-up when watching the first two episodes were things they ran with, down to specific execution. I know it doesn't mean anything, but I like to imagine it means I have a good writer's instincts encoded in me somewhere.

Excellent stuff. Your observations are very perceptive.

Edited March 10, 2011 by ThunderPeel2001

[Scrobbs]

...aaaaaaand rather topically (for us) Snoop (from the wire) gets arrested IRL for being part of a drugs smuggling operation: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/local-breaking-news/the-wire-actress-arrested-in-d.html

I thought I'd read that she was a hood when she was younger.

[ThunderPeel2001]

...aaaaaaand rather topically (for us) Snoop (from the wire) gets arrested IRL for being part of a drugs smuggling operation: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/local-breaking-news/the-wire-actress-arrested-in-d.html

I thought I'd read that she was a hood when she was younger.

I don't think Kroms has met her character yet, but you're right.

A lot of people in the show are real (compared to other shows, at least). The "real" Avon Barksdale appears as "The Deacon", for one thing. Lots of the original homicide/newspaper people that Simon worked with also appear. I heard an interview that Simon said that everyone who appears in the show is loosely based on people they've met or heard about during their time on the streets.

[Thyroid]

So, I finished watching The Wire, season two, two weeks ago.

People, there are some serious spoilers in this post. You've been warned.

The first thing that comes to mind is that it is not as immediately grabbing as the first season. In fact, I got a little mad at David Simon for writing such a cliched interrogation scene. On the other hand, they seem to actually know this, and it's weird to think that episodes 1-3 are all set-up. Yes, they're a bit cliched, but they're also brilliant; more importantly, they're setting the table. The story only really starts when Avon so cleverly works things to his advantage in the prison by poisoning everyone.

It's really commendable that they take the time to tease you with reunions. There's a shot in the first episode where a new character is watching Bodie and Shamrock working, and you very clearly see a reflection off the glass window he's standing next to; it's a man, passing quickly, and wearing Omar's clothes. It's very subtle.

And they *do* take time to re-introduce things, because they don't want to stay in the past. Sure, some things are mentioned, but they're only talked about because they need to be talked about. This is a brand new story, very different to the first one. You've got dock workers, Greek (well...) gangsters, an ass-pimple of a police chief, and a can of dead girls. You've got a new member, the very likeable Russell, and that lovable train-wreck, McNulty, to rope back. You've got boats. You've got last year's crew, Stringer running a business and a lot of people behind bars. D'Angelo and Avon clash. Stringer's busy boning D'Angelo's former flame and making mistakes. He isn't making himself many friends and is counting on too many things to happen. There is a tragic arc here. He's slowly working towards his own end, while also becoming the most fascinating and interesting character in the show. By the end, it seems like Avon knows what he did. (I won't talk about that. My heart still hasn't mended. What a twist. I didn't believe it until the funeral.)

The new characters are all great. They're all real human beings, and who hasn't known a Ziggy or a Nick? Frank Sobotka's the one who takes the cake, though. A real shade of grey, a man swimming in murky waters to reach a goal; a good man, I think, who makes a few too many mistakes. As always, the George Pelecanos episodes are a highlight and his last one, "Bad Dreams", which ends with Frank going to meet The Greek and Spiros near the docks is one of the greatest, and one of the saddest, things I've seen on television. This is real writing, people. Learn from it.

David Simon's episodes always feature some moment where things are put in an ironic way, and he really outdoes himself here. He makes statements that are neither forced nor straight-out delivered. They're there, subtle, buried, and you have to pay attention to notice them.

Another thing about season two: it's really funny at times. As sad as the Sobotkas' story is, and what happens to the Barksdale crew and McNulty with his wife, there are some genuinely funny moments throughout the series. My favourite is Herc teasing Kima for being "whipped", with a nice "Fuck me, I can not type" at the beginning.

The ending relies on too many coincidences and there's some good luck involved I feel averse to. The dock where the Turkish handler is killed just happens to have a tide-turning security camera. Freamon just happens to be there when Nick turns himself in.

But still. The second season, though less than the first in some ways, is superior in others, and manages to be about on par with it. Tonally, it's different, but still very much The Wire. I don't want to start season three yet, because I don't want to hurry the day when there is no more Wire to watch.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I don't want to start season three yet, because I don't want to hurry the day when there is no more Wire to watch.

I remember that feeling...

[Thyroid]

Finished season three of The Wire and I'm a cocktail of feelings. In the best way possible, I'm extremely upset.

My only clear thought is that, if you love The Wire, chances are high that you'd love the Song of Ice and Fire books. And also that I'm feeling a little dizzy.

No exaggeration, I was so upset for a while I felt like I was going to throw-up. I saw it coming, and it was inevitable, but I'm still really upset.

Damn.

Easily the best season out of the three.

The Wire's become more than a TV show. At least, that's how it feels to me. I can't compare it to other TV, but to the more formative experiences of my life. All I can do is type half-heartedly into the Idle Forums and watch dust motes settle into my water glass. Can't think straight.

Merry Christmas, guys.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Ah, The Wire. I'm honestly of the opinion that the world would be marginally better if everyone had seen it. I think there should be a "recommend The Wire" day, so that us Wire bores get to gush whole-heartedly without guilt for one day a year.

[Thyroid]

I started season four of The Wire yesterday. I have to admit that I am very impressed with the point they chose to focus on for this season. The two episodes I saw are among the finest the series has put out, and it's not exactly short on fineness, you know?