DICE 2013: Didn't they make Battlefield?

[Lu]

Never really followed DICE Summit all that much, but some interesting talks came out of it, so I figured let's make a thread about it.

Mington already posted this in the latest Idle Thumbs discussion thread, but I'm just gonna post it again. Like he said, he retreads a lot of what he's been talking about in the past weeks, so there won't really be anything new in there if you followed that closely.

David Cage's talk, of which Warren Spector said in his own talk: "I need to apologize to David Cage who gave half of my talk yesterday, if you're in the audience please introduce yourself, because I agreed with everything you said and disagreed with every solution you proposed" I think a lot of us would agree with him there, at least I do, to an extent.

[Lu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=v-Fnn0yOw74

and here's Warren Spector's talk! I noticed by the way that when warren spector said that "Lollipop Chainsaw should not have been made" in his opinion, and it felt like a throwaway line, but that's the headline Kotaku ran in connection to this talk. Why? Was that really the takeaway? SIGH. But maybe that's my mistake by holding Kotaku to any standards.

You can find a whole list of more stuff over nyah. I haven't watched any other talks yet, but definitely link it if you thought it was worth a watch!

[melmer]

We've probably all, or will all experience Warrens shorting allotted gaming time per week. Over these past 10 years, and most drastically this past year my gaming habits has gone from practically all my spare time to less than 10 hours a week (and I haven't even had kids yet)

If we say most of video game play time is just time wasting... What game is an expectable waste of time?

I guess it's all a matter of opinion and what your tastes are. For me i felt my time with games like Journey or the walking dead was fully justifiable with no guilt attached as they were new valuable experiences. Where as the whole time i was playing Mass Effect 3 and Assassin Creed 3 I had in the back of my mind "I really should be painting my house". The experience I was having didn't justify the time I was spending on it. I feel the same about watching bullshit day time television.

I didn't feel like I was wasting my time when I was playing the Witcher 2, which is a pretty similar experience to Mass Effect 3 and Ass Creed 3. And I think there's two difference, one is the quality of the writing/narrative and the other is the quality of gameplay, is that one hour session a dull repetitive grind or is it filled with interesting fun entertainment.

I've been spending a lot of time recently playing sonic racing transformed, and although the game is repetitive, it has that halo factor, exhilarating entertaining 10 second moments over and over again. It's a throw back to the games we used to play 15-20 years ago when gameplay was key.

I'm a little worried about starting up Ni No Kuni as I've heard it's a grind, whether or not I stick with it ultimately comes down to the gameplay. Here I am saying gameplay is key in justifying my game playing time when two minutes ago I name dropped the walking dead, of course the writing carried that game. I think it just goes to show that video games as a medium is so broad and diverse you can't make sweeping gestures about it, but quality will shine through, and heartless money grab yearly upgrades and sequels just won't cut it anymore.

(Will the walking dead season 2 be a heartless money grab? Does the team all feel like "We've done this, we've told our zombie story" I hope there's still passion there or it will show in the final product)

[I_smell]

and here's Warren Spector's talk! I noticed by the way that when warren spector said that "Lollipop Chainsaw should not have been made" in his opinion, I'm assuming, but that's the headline Kotaku ran in connection to this talk. Why? Was that really the takeaway? SIGH. But maybe that's my mistake by holding Kotaku to any standards.

Yeah I watched this talk from a thread on the giantbomb forums about "warren spector slams lollipop chainsaw" or something and everyone saying "fuck this guy games should be about fun" for a few pages. I actually got sad and annoyed that this is where we are with this stuff.

[melmer]

Lollipop chainsaw was actually really imaginative. The goth zombie guy was awesome. So in this instance yeah fuck Spector.

[Regenherz]

I think there are a lot of valid points to be made on the Lollipop-Chainsaw-is-ethically-questionable side. Of course it is imaginative but its themes and the portrayal of its main character are still problematic. Then again, I have heard compelling things on the other side, too. That Warren Spector statement is just weird. "It shouldn't have been made." I think the attempt has sparked some interesting discussions about tongue-in-cheek sexism and why self-awareness doesn't necessarily make things better. Still, that's not what I think but it is interesting and "it shouldn't have been made" is just a stupid way of shying away from provocative topics and discussions. He is not furthering anything here.

Yeah I watched this talk from a thread on the giantbomb forums about "warren spector slams lollipop chainsaw" or something and everyone saying "fuck this guy games should be about fun" for a few pages. I actually got sad and annoyed that this is where we are with this stuff.

That is really depressing, the guys on the GiantBomb forums I mean. Somebody on reddit recently asked why we always have to validate games as a hobby, why can't we just have fun? I responded with this:

"Because "I play games for fun" is not necessarily something we all have in common. Different people have different definitions of "fun". It is a filler word that does not describe much. I don't understand the opposite: why be bothered by the people who try to validate the hobby of gaming? Why is that a problem?

It's like all these discussions we have about generally frowned upon and uncomfortable topics like feminism, sexism, racism, harassment or even just bad manners are an assault on some people's idea of fun. Do you really think what that minority wants will replace AAA titles any time soon? We want diversity. How in the world is that a bad thing?

That does include talking to other gamers about having diverse opinions. This is not about preaching, the opposite actually: it is about trying to spread tolerance and empathy in a medium that has been traditionally preferred by people who were shunned by society. I am a little tired of people telling me to just have fun and be quiet. I like to be critical towards things I care a lot about. Maybe that's not your thing -that's fine- but I don't see how this always comes up as this threatening new wave way of thinking about games."

On a lighter note, I watched that talk with Jenova Chen on Journey. It was fun hearing him talk about how they stripped down game mechanics, how game genres are organized after mechanics and not according to people's emotional responses to them like in other media. Interesting stuff.

[Merus]

Different people have different definitions of "fun".

One day I hope that this becomes as common an aphorism amongst gamers as "hit it in the giant eye".

[I_smell]

I wonder if Kotaku has a responsibility to stop quoting tweets and randomly fuelling arguments with developers, considering it is the most popular source of game news updates. Cos I feel like most of the people who think "Warren Spector craps on Lollipop Chainsaw" is an interesting story only think that because Kotaku dressed it up as one, and that's the source of news that they trust.

The other side of that coin is that they don't have a responsibility to do anything and people should have the capacity to decide what they think is important... it probably comes down to whether or not you think the mass blog-reading audience is aware enough to do that, and decide with their wallets (i.e web page hits) what's worth reading.

...I bet this is a really well-covered topic with actual newspapers.

Also yea I watched all the DICE talks: really good. The talk about making Bastion multiplatform was interesting considering Unity is out there pushing the idea of making every version at once.

[melmer]

You guys should watch this

http://gameoverthinker.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/episode-82-never-grow-old.html