MGS3: Fail? :(

[toblix]

I most certainly will!

[DanJW]

I always tried to keep my camo 85%+, but I still got spotted.

Reading this brought up a small suspicion in my mind. All those having difficulty do realise that camo only works fully when youre not moving, right? Just wanted to check. Only move when the enemy is looking somewhere else.

Also about the three Snakes (minor spoiler?)

It's always bothered me that the third wasn't called Gaseous. But then utterly ridiculous code-names are a part of the Metal Gear world I guess.

[geiger]

Tried again this afternoon but I just can't stop it turning into a bloodbath. The camera angle can be really unforgiving. I'm not prepared to go through the game unless I can play it properly but at this rate I'll never see the story :\

[DanJW]

What can I say that I haven't already? Buy a strategy guide maybe? Or watch a youtube clip. Whatever it takes, just L2P!

I finished the first Metal Gear Solid today. Hooray! Lots of awesome, although the last few boss fights were really tough, and I was playing on easy(!). I've started a second playthrough, but it bothers me a bit that I can't use my end-of game save on a different difficulty. I'd like to try normal or hard but then I'd lose my unlockables aparently

Also I've just found that the extras menu I unlocked contains both Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2. Hmmmm. I might have to give those a go.

I also plan on stealing MGS3 back from Rusalka if she doesn't get round to playing it soon. It's a game that deserves to live in the DVD tray.

[Thrik]

Yeah, if you still can't manage you're just beyond help I think.

I really didn't find the game too difficult at all after a few hours. Obviously I died a lot, but I took things carefully and strategically, and with a lot of patience (something the Commandos games taught me ).

And if I do get spotted, I fight back. As I said, it's almost always possible to either escape or beat them — it's not like earlier games where there's a seemingly limitless number of enemies. You can go into Rambo mode and start taking them out from cover as they look for you (dropping off trees, dragging people behind logs and slashing their throats, smashing through windows and CQCing someone's face into the floor, etc). Some of my most memorable moments were while doing shit like this.

[geiger]

I don't have any trouble with killing everyone when things turn nasty, just feels like the wrong way to play the game :\

[toblix]

Okay, so I'm at the point where I've infiltrated the base, and the guy tells me to backtrack a little bit and head towards another base. Sadly I'm still not "getting" it. Because of the annoying shit that happens whenever I get discovered I tend to always maximize the distance between myself and any guards. It usually ends up with my getting discovered anyway and then killing everyone. I remember MGS2 as this awesome game, but this... I've fought two bosses and walked through a shitload of jungle and caves and I'm not really digging it. The interface and mechanics with all the little subsystems are just stressing me out, and I'm not getting into the game proper. Obviously this is a totally awesome game and the fault lies with me for not appreciating it, but I'm so confused as to why I enjoyed the prequel so, and find this rather ordinary.

With the exception of the boss fights, the game play is a fucking horrible version of Splinter Cell. I'm not saying they're trying to emulate it or anything, but I keep comparing all the controls and moves to SC and this just feels clumsy, and besides the sneaking around, what is there?

There's just too much stuff I have to mess around with that should've been cut, in my opinion. The curing and the eating and the inventory management and the radio, and the fucking pieces o'shit controls. I know the designer of the MGS series is like a God, and his games are awesome, but can anyone claim with a straight face that the controls in MGS3 do not suck?

Does the game change, or is there just a lot of jungle left for me to run through? So far it seems this game just isn't for me, and it makes me so sad, because MGS4 looks awesome.

[DanJW]

can anyone claim with a straight face that the controls in MGS3 do not suck?

.

I can!

Like I've said before, there came a point for me where the controls suddenly became a tool, allowing me to do whatever I wanted with style and aplomb. Compare it to a fighter game like DOA perhaps - a beginner just button mashes and feels clumsy, but a pro can use all the blocks and parries and can chain moves into something that is not only deadly but looks awesome too. That's what the MGS3 controls are like, both the sneaking and fighting.

I've never played Splinter Cell, so I can't comment on that. But as for 'what else is there'... I've come across few other games that are so jammed with stuff to discover! Not to mention the epic storyline.

Did you try the training missions?

Oh well. Tastes may vary.

[Thrik]

Yeah, I didn't really have a problem with the controls either. For the most part they're very similar to the controls of the preceding games, but with extra stuff jammed on. It wasn't much of a stretch to get to grips with.

Really, I do think of MGS3 as absolutely fantastic in pretty much every way. Everything you just criticised doesn't really ring true with me in any way, so I guess all we can do is conclude it's just not your type of game. It happens!

[toblix]

Not to mention the epic storyline.

Yeah, I'm basically playing it to see what else kind of crazy shit this Hideo guy can come up with.

[toblix]

Okay, I've gotten to the part where I run around in a bunch of flowers. Gave up due to gamer rage, will continue tomorrow. Normally I'd assume this was the final fight and that I was almost done, but since this is a Japanese game, I guess I'm about one third in, and that none of the bosses I killed actually died, but just got more pissed off and took on another shape.

[DanJW]

Hmm, if it's where I'm thinking then you are nearly done. Who are you fighting?

I'm playing through MGS2 now. It's better than I expected, but still not as good as 1 or 3 (which is pretty much impossible). I'm more confused about your comment on the 3rd game's controls though, since the controls in 2 seem almost exactly the same to me.

[toblix]

The Boss

It's crazy, I know. It must've been me who have changed, and not the games.

Also:

Wild chase with unlimed ammo

The following escort/protection sequence.

[toblix]

Okay, I just completed it. Bullet time!

Awesome story and cut-scenes. This was the reason I played this all the way through. It's seldom I play a game just to follow the story, but this was just awesome, I couldn't stop.

Cool characters and bosses. Not a fan of boss fights, but their design and stories were wonderful.

Very Easy mode was awesome. I got to experience the game (some would beg to differ, probably) without messing too much around with the various game mechanics. I wish more games had this kind of stuff. This was the reason I was able to play through the whole thing.

Mix between the serious and the crazy, breaking the fourth wall, etc. I remember liking this from MGS2 too.

Chase sequences with unlimited ammo is the huge winning.

Not a fan of the jungle gameplay.

The slow escort sequence towards the end was awful. Too slow.

So, in essence, I don't love the main game play and sneaking mechanics, controls.. basically most of the game parts. The story was so fun though, and the very easy mode so easy that I could just whiz through all the combat and enjoy the stuff I liked. Is there a very easy mode in MGS4 too?

Is there a MGS4 "previously on MGS" thing somewhere? I'd like to read about what has happened in all the games with all the characters up to MGS4, without actual MGS4 spoilers. Wikipedia is too fragmented.

[miffy495]

Well, there's the Metal Gear Encyclopedia that's available from the PSN, but if you don't have a PS3 that wouldn't do you much good...

[ThunderPeel2001]

Woohoo! Picked this up again last night (finally found time) and it clicked! I watched all the training videos and it made such a huge difference. MGS3, while having similar controls to its predecessors, is different in that you actually need to use them. Once you get the hang of them, you realise that the game itself is played very differently to the others (and to be honest, the controls aren't even that complicated once you know what you're doing)... and I love it!

Here's the things that helped me from the videos:

There are three speeds you can move at: Run, Walk and Stalk. To Run you push the L analogue stick as far as it goes, to Walk, halfway. That was obvious, but what I didn't know was that to Stalk (and make hardly any noise), you need to use the D-Pad. When you're Stalking you can sneak up within inches to baddie and he won't notice. So much better!

When you're crawling, there are two speeds: Crawl and Stalk: And the same goes for these two as well. You make a lot less noise when you Stalk using the D-Pad... which means you get detected a lot less.

The second major thing is CQC. As Thrik pointed out, you need to use this, it's absolutely essential and fantastically useful. You can go around a base knocking people out as you need to without being detected. (And even use people as human shields... yikes!) Again, this makes a huge difference.

The third thing I learned (although not from the videos) is that I had a useful weapons/equipment stash in my Backpack that I didn't realise I had access to... which makes those moments when you DO get spotted a lot easier to handle. Unlike the previous games, these moments are a lot easier to handle and not necessarily game over, just whip out your fave weapon and lay waste!

If I'm stuck I use the Codec and the conversations are pretty damn useful, too (and shorter and to the point).

I even like the new medicine system now, as I can see it means you can't just start munching rations in the middle of a gunfight... it forces you to be more tactical.

SO glad this finally clicked! Thanks guys!

Status update: I just defeated The Pain and am now wandering around some caves. Five hours in.

[toblix]

When you're crawling, there are two speeds: Crawl and Stalk: And the same goes for these two as well. You make a lot less noise when you Stalk using the D-Pad... which means you get detected a lot less.

I'm pretty sure there are three crawling speeds as well.

[Thrik]

Ace, Thunderpeel.

All this talk puts me in the mood for an epic series replay before I get MGS4 (pending new TV room being sorted), even though I did so at the beginning of last year.

[DanJW]

Hooray! 1 out of 3. How is Geiger doing?

I got a replacement disc and finished MGS2. The gameplay was great, almost as good as the third game - the oil spill facility was a lot more interesting than the previews I'd read made it sound. The plot was pretty good too... up until the end where it disappeared up its own arse (in the stage that is apparently named Arsenal Rectum... how appropriate!)

I liked the idea that S3 was the production of a Solid Snake replica (Raiden) but then we are almost immediately told that it is some kind of mind control thingy instead. And as for Rose... is she an evil tool of the Patriots or not? Did she really say or that mindfuck stuff at the end or was that a simulation like the Colonel? If I was in control of Raiden at the end I would have shot her on the spot

The games are huge, I don't think any normal sized review or analysis could do them justice. Just one tiny thing at the top of my mind - why do the bosses have stamina bars? I went to all the trouble of defeating using tranqs, hoping that I would be rewarded (like the extra camouflage you get by doing this in MGS3) but no... it just makes it harder on youself.

Also what happened to Vamp? After refusing to die so may times, he just goes away. Is he back in MGS4 I wonder? I hope so, I'd like to kill the fucker properly.

Also also, I hope we finally find out what the patriots are in the final game.

Also things got very melodramatic towards the end (with the discovery of Emma I think). Everyone bawling their eyes out a bit too much (Otacon I'm looking at you especially).

Both the conspiracy stuff and the emotional stuff felt much more grounded and subtle in MGS3... which is why it's still my favourite.

[miffy495]

Also what happened to Vamp? After refusing to die so may times, he just goes away. Is he back in MGS4 I wonder? I hope so, I'd like to kill the fucker properly.

Yes.

Also also, I hope we finally find out what the patriots are in the final game.

Yes.

Also things got very melodramatic towards the end (with the discovery of Emma I think). Everyone bawling their eyes out a bit too much (Otacon I'm looking at you especially).

YES.

[DanJW]

OK, so my epic MGS replay marathon has reached Snake Eater again, and it is indeed more difficult than the previous two (especially the first encounter with guards - 3 or 4 of them in 1 'room'! Harsh for what could be your first try). At least now I'm in a better position to say why.

Primarily it's because of the lack of the SOLITON radar. I was surprised in MGS2 how much it still resembled that from the first game - which was itself of course a cut-down version of the original Metal Gear games.

It's far too easy in those games to rely on the radar to play the game - you barely have to look at the main screen at all except for shooting and interacting with the environment. The guards visibility cones were an especially indulgent device.

So in MGS3 they've taken it away, meaning you have to be in the world a whole lot more. There's the sonar and the movement detector but those have limited battery and only show faint blips. I think this might be the major stumbling block for people playing through the series in order.

Partly because of this, combined with the outdoor setting that makes the bulk of the game, tactics change. Like The Boss tells you right at the beginning: "Snake, you excel at urban warfare and infiltrating buildings, but the jungle is completely different".

The game instantly took me back to my cadet days, so I instinctively dropped down into the prone position as I was taught to do. If you stand up anywhere but in the most secure areas you will be seen. You ought to spend most of this game on your belly.

I knew that this is how you should navigate dangerous forrested because I had been taught it elsewhere, but it is the other major thing that Metal Gear veterans might not think of - and it doesn't tell you outright.

Maybe this would have helped you if I'd thought of it earlier Toblix. Sorry.

Anyway, it was a nice evolution in the Metal Gear series exploration of the theme of warfare, and one of the things that really chimed with me was its use of real-life tactics (now I just need to earn the DPM camo to really completel the nostalgia trip). What I've seen of the fourth game seems to build on it.... *drool*

[toblix]

Holy crap, I remember it now! The radar with visibility cones! This explains everything! So, I guess this is still missing in MGS4?

[Thrik]

Kind of. MGS4 has improved the MGS3 formula somewhat, trying to make you rely on your senses but also giving you a bit more of a hand (this is pretty much vital as the maps are so much bigger and full of enemies who can spot you from quite far away). It's not as generous as what we got in MGS1 and MGS2, though.

There're two main mechanisms. One is the Solid Eye System, which gives you a life-detecting radar (so can pick up the odd squirrel and such like in MGS3, leading to amusing results). This is pretty useful as it also highlights enemies in your main view with a subtle square if you look in their direction, providing some basic statistics such as whose side they're on. This is powered by batteries, but like in MGS3 you can basically leave it on permanently once you find a few.

The Solid Eye System doesn't show where enemies are looking, whether or not they're alert, etc. It's also not very effective during an alert because the life pulses on the radar are far bigger when people are stressed, including Snake himself. The whole radar just ends up as a mess of life pulses.

The other system is the awareness ring, which really surprised me with its efficacy when I first used it. Basically, if you stay still or move really slowly you get a subtle ring that appears around Snake. If there's an enemy in any given direction, that part of the ring will form a wave. The wave will grow higher as the enemy gets closer, ultimately resulting in it turning red and the enemy almost certainly spotting you. It's a bit tricky to explain but it is totally intuitive.

I think it's fair to say MGS4 has gotten the play formula as perfect as it's gotten yet. And best of all, environments from all three predecessors are combined with some whole new ones (such as the open battlefields we heard so much about). I'm still in some place that plays a hell of a lot like MGS3, which is just downright ace.

[toblix]

These new features sound absolutely awesome. My initial misreading of the awareness ring -- the awesomeness ring -- sounded even better, but still.

[ThunderPeel2001]

It's far too easy in those games to rely on the radar to play the game - you barely have to look at the main screen at all except for shooting and interacting with the environment. The guards visibility cones were an especially indulgent device.

So in MGS3 they've taken it away, meaning you have to be in the world a whole lot more. There's the sonar and the movement detector but those have limited battery and only show faint blips. I think this might be the major stumbling block for people playing through the series in order.

This is so true. When I was replaying "Twin Snakes", there were definitely times when it just made more sense to watch the radar rather than was was happening on screen. In MGS3, I much more aware of my environment... it's such a brilliant progression, I love it.