An article for your perusal

[miffy495]

Yeah, there's a difference between hardcore, H-Core and hXc. I kind of think that hardcore is what Chris has been talking about, H-Core is the people who play a lot of the big FPS's and the like but don't really pay attention to any of the smaller releases. hXc is the really annoying kind. The people that are completely fluent in 1337 and would throw up looking at something like Nintendogs (on a side note, I am now the proud owner of a miniature pinscher named Sam). That is my understanding of hardcore. Anyone with a more detailed analysis, I'm aware that my definition kinda sucks and am open to a new one.

[Trithemius]

Yeah, there's a difference between hardcore, H-Core and hXc. I kind of think that hardcore is what Chris has been talking about, H-Core is the people who play a lot of the big FPS's and the like but don't really pay attention to any of the smaller releases. hXc is the really annoying kind. The people that are completely fluent in 1337 and would throw up looking at something like Nintendogs (on a side note, I am now the proud owner of a miniature pinscher named Sam). That is my understanding of hardcore. Anyone with a more detailed analysis, I'm aware that my definition kinda sucks and am open to a new one.

Shouldn't post-punk music feature in any discussion of what is hardcore? Or do kids today find that insufficiently extreme?

[AndyB]

Simple answer shoehorn Mario / Princess Peach into each of these games, anyone with elite photoshop skills could try their hand at Psycho-Mario-Nauts, or Super Mar-ICO brothers feat. Princess Peach as Yorda, or having Mario / Luigi (he wears green?) pushing the Katamari.

Basically, what I am saying is that if these more off-beat games had a popular character at their centre it might be easier to sell them? heh

(Of course, I would say that it isn't just the character of Mario that interests these gamers, but the simplicity / accessibility of the 2D run'n'jump'n'stomp gameplay.

[Chris]

That's kind of what Nintendo actually does. That's why it doesn't really bother me that they use their old characters so much. I mean, their strength is never going to be deep character development or anything, and in a certain type of video game that stuff is totally unnecessary. So they fool around with really interesting and awesome gameplay and then stick Mario or Wario or Kirby or whatever on top of it and people buy it. It's too bad the industry has to work that well but it doesn't bother me in Nintendo's case because Nintendo really does ensure that their games are fresh and inventive.

[miffy495]

Yay for Nintendo indeed. You forgot about DK and the inventive platforming of Jungle Beat. Not fantastic, but a solid, fun, and NEW way of playing.

[AndyB]

Yes, retailers are focused on selling & hyping product rather than promoting quality.

The following article has an interesting take on this issue

http://www.ntsc-uk.com/feature.php?fea=OriginalityIsValued

[vimes]

Nintendo really does ensure that their games are fresh and inventive.

I'm far from being a console expert but that is something that really strike me not so long ago : Nintendo developers keep using the same characters but they change the gameplay at each iteration-> Mario Sunshine differs as much from Mario 64 as the latter differs from Super Mario. And to make the audience accept those change is impressive... what's better is that because of the quality they maintained through the gameplay changes, they gained a credibility that allows them to change nearly anything in the gameplay without having the fanbase boo-ing each of their decision. Or so I think.

[Chris]

Yeah, that's pretty much it. Some claim there wasn't enough evolution from Super Mario 64 to Super Mario Sunshine, but I think even that reaction displays how accustomed people are to Nintendo constantly bringing new elements to the table.

[miffy495]

Just the fact that Mario doesn't really jump anymore (I've become incredibly dependant on the hover nozzle) is enough of a change, really.