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Rob Zacny

Esports Today 10/6/2015: LoL's Chaos in the Old World

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Esports Today October 6, 2015:

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LoL's Chaos in the Old World
It's time for Worlds 2015, where nobody knows anything and the Fate mocks every League of Legends prediction. James "Obscurica" Chen joins Rob and Andrew to discuss why this group stage has been so wild, and what happened to China's vaunted LoL scene. Meanwhile, Rob is mending from injuries sustained during the violent crash of the ByuL Hype Train in StarCraft 2's latest GSL season, but he still finds it in himself to grill Andrew about the Dota 2 tournament at ESL One.

League of Legends, StarCraft, Dota 2

 

First segment: StarCraft 2

10:00 - LoL with James Chen

30:57 - Dota 2

36:00 - Esports Tomorrow

 

Cheat Sheet

 

ByuL vs. INnoVation GSL Final VoD

James' interview with CLG for PC Gamer

Kelsey Moser on LGD's Flop

Origen vs. KT Rolster

ESL One

ESL One Grand Finals Secret vs. Vega - Game 3 VoD

 

 

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The LoL meta is kinda funny to me since it worked about the same as the CDEC strat (only it is the radiant bottom tower that is important to take early, not the mid tower) at TI. It makes sense though because the overall idea in League and DOTA is essentially the same -- you want to control the map and creep equilibrium in your favor, while maximizing gold and XP as efficiently as possible, and you want to do it with picks that won't get punished for it.

 

I think as far as EG goes Andrew and Rob are both sort of right on this count. Andrew is right that it's too small a sample size to really judge the new team. On the other hand, PPD really did stink up the place with that draft he put together in game 2. It's a little difficult to comprehend how someone that is regarded as a master strategist when it comes to drafting put together that lineup. That being said, if I was EG I wouldn't be sweating these results, but I would try and figure out some way to get a lot more games in because clearly this team needs some more time to come together.

 

Andrew's description of Vega reminded me of how subjective some impressions are of teams. I found Vega distinct from the usual CIS style DOTA, and to be quite passive. They seemed to favor heroes like Broodmother, Ember Spirit, Shadow Fiend, and the Tiny + Wisp combo that excel at split pushing, and waiting to fight on their own terms. I think CDEC remained the team that was fun to watch for the raw aggression (but who were once again unable to overcome the cheese factor of heroes like Techies or Brood).

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(I was talking to ewokskick about PPD's draft and he said in match one they tried to ignore broodmother and give sumail something he's good at, and when that didn't work they instead counterpicked the broodmother with something sumail's not good at and both times they lost. it seems like they need to figure out how to deal with broodmother!)

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Yeah the way Vega and Secret picked up Broodmother this tournament was a real innovation in drafting strategies. Back in 6.83 you would sometimes see a Brood pick, but it was almost always a surprise last pick. Teams didn't want to risk picking it earlier in the draft because the assumption was that the enemy team would then respond with a Brood counter like Axe or Bristleback.

 

But now we're in the 6.85 meta, and this tournament we saw Vega and Secret pickup Brood in the first phase of the draft even though that would give the enemy team the opportunity to counter pick. Bristleback and Axe are still fine counters to Broodmother, but the problem is that they aren't strong heroes in the current meta. So the early Brood pick forces the enemy team into having to decide between two horrible choices: either pick a hero to deal with the Brood that weakens the overall synergy of your team, or lose an entire lane and have whatever heroes you assign to that lane be severely under-farmed and under-leveled.

 

Interestingly, Secret gave away the Broodmother in the 2nd game against Vega, and that was the one game they won. They sent Misery to the lane vs Brood and somehow he managed to hold his own in the lane. Meanwhile they had Pieliedie on the Bounty Hunter who even after the nerfs I think is still a really powerful hero because of track. The track was just one more tool they had to easily kill an invisible hero, and it also meant they had an economic advantage after every even or successful engagement against Vega and they were able to take a quick victory that game.

 

Then in the final game Puppey decides to first phase ban the Broodmother instead of the Ember Spirit. Vega picks up the Ember Spirit and 9pasheabashu is devestating on that hero.

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The LoL meta is kinda funny to me since it worked about the same as the CDEC strat (only it is the radiant bottom tower that is important to take early, not the mid tower) at TI. It makes sense though because the overall idea in League and DOTA is essentially the same -- you want to control the map and creep equilibrium in your favor, while maximizing gold and XP as efficiently as possible, and you want to do it with picks that won't get punished for it.

 

There are actually two very different thought processes on how to play the early game in LoL in this meta.

 

The "western" laneswap (this is a bit of a misnomer as it wasn't really created by western teams, but w/e) is one where you send 3-4 players to a lane in the early game to take the turret very quickly and "bounce" the minion wave off the turret. Ideally, this deprives the opposing toplaner of a great deal of early experience and gold. You then leave either your ADC or your toplaner in that lane to soak up all that farm.

 

The "Eastern" laneswap (again a misnomer) favors not taking the early turret but, instead, bouncing one wave off that turret to create a "freeze" in that lane and then leaving your ADC in that lane to both get all that farm and to force the opposing toplaner out of that lane. As a ranged champion, ADCs are often able to zone a toplaner off the wave if that toplaner doesn't have someone else in his lane. The Eastern laneswap has a higher potential of depriving the opposing toplaner of farm, but taking down an early turret allows for vision control and invading the enemy jungle on whatever side you've taken the turret.

 

Both of these styles have their strengths and there really isn't an East/West dichotomy between teams that adhere to each respective strategy, although the western style does seem to be performing better in the early stages of groups. Obviously achieving sound results with either of these styles is highly depending on early vision and obtaining accurate information about where the other team is starting.

 

What's  interesting to me is how poorly LGD is performing. I really thought they were the 3rd best team in the world, and they likely aren't going to make it out of groups.

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