twmac

Whoops, sorry if that came out like that - The way you put it was far better written and compiled. I always enjoy hearing about people's feelings on Bioshock, I am a bit biased as I got to watch two different people play through and, for the first time, get really excited about the possibilities of narrative in games.

Really appreciated you saying pretty much what I wrote multiple times. I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. But come on, 'blundering miasma' seems to be a bit harsh on Bioshock.

Hahaha, tell me about it. I went out for drinks on Friday and I got told I was opinionated in a way that is different from me because I objected to the use of N***** in everyday conversation. I tried to point out that it is massively racist and I got told that it wasn't in Poland. Their 11th of November parade is apparently real classy. EDIT: "opinionated in a way that is different from me" is an autocorrect in this forum and means I was told I was olitically orrect

Yeah, I recently completed that game and posted in the Thomas Was Alone thread. It was a really delightful, Sunday-hangover game. I have also played and finished Lost Planet 3 (mainly because of my adulation for Lost Planet 2, which is still one of the best games of its generation) and I pretty much agree with Tanu. I thought the atmosphere was really solid (it also has the best drinking animation in any game I have ever played) but was not supported by the mechanics in a way that I thought was meaningful. I would love to see someone take the Lost Planet 3 engine and then make a Don't Starve style game with big desolate snow scapes to explore in your mech.

Lovers in a Dangerous Space Time is definitely worth a punt, although it might be a friendship ender rather than a good Co-Op game. Really interesting to see how different people play it.

That was one of the ones I got stuck on - it is the one where you have to jump and hit a clone standing on the roof above you to solve it. Those three rooms almost ruined the game for me.

No Polish thumbs at all, that surprises me because these guys love their video games.

Release it on Xbox One and I will definitely buy it. Honestly, I am starting to feel like a complete Dinosaur with that console.

So, I finished the game with the help of a walkthrough last night. There were 3 puzzles that I just could not do - I spent more time on them than the rest of the puzzles combined until I gave up and just went to a guide. I am glad that I did as two of them involved doing things that have never been done before and really lack sign-posting. When I saw the solutions I didn't slap my forehead and groan at how obvious it was, instead I just shrugged and concluded I would never have figured that out at all (one involves jumping up to wipe out one clone while standing in a specific spot - this has never been explored before). So, yeah, a horrible final slog that locks off the ending credits is not how I wanted that game to end and it made me kind of sad after an otherwise fun, atmospheric game.

I totally am. I have no idea what Sleep No More is.

That's really interesting as I would have called Sleep No More a game. If (Rohrer?) the developer doesn't call it one, that's fine by me. I really enjoyed the little I played of it.

Right, so I think I understand your point more and see where we differ. I am arguing that 'game' is the type/art form/medium and that Dear Esther falls into a genre under that. Whereas you are arguing that the type/medium/format of Dear Esther is software based but that it does not fall into a genre under 'video game'. Fair enough, I think I see the point you are trying to make. I, obviously, completely disagree but I don't really have anywhere to go with this conversation as we are stuck in very different frame's of mind. As for what makes a game, if there is a level of interaction and the maker tells me it is a game - good enough for me. Now, whether I like it or not - different conversation.

This is the first one I found, sorry?

The Final Girls just came out to stream and I was really impressed. The film is a love letter to old slasher films but the core story is actually really a touching story of a girl learning to cope with the loss of her mother. It dances away from being too sugary. Definitely worth it and Taissa Farmiga is slowly putting together a solid acting portfolio (she was really good in 6 years).

Journalist makes mistake, Editor admits mistake and apologises. Commenters demand that writer is fired because of ethics: http://www.vg247.com/2015/10/14/letter-from-the-editor-an-apology-to-naughty-dog-and-uncharted-fans/

So, I can expect a Christmas Card then?

Yeah, I came back and immediately solved 4 more. However, I did come across one that it became so frustrating that I looked up the solution - I was right to do so because I would never have solved that.

I am just going to keep repeating the same things I have already said but with different words in response to both of Ninety-Three and aoanla, so I am going to stop. Especially as Tanu is right, this isn't the thread for this.

See, the problem with that comparison is that is doesn't work. Much like the 'A Cup isn't a game and therefore Dear Esther isn't either' is an equally bad argument. Romantic comedies and Michael Bay films still exist within the same media. They are films. The Harry Potter comparison sort of works but then we are still talking about sub categories of books. Harry Potter and Beowulf are still books but they exist in subgenres. My point about authorial intent is when Tracy Amin says that her content is art - I agree and go "I think it is bollocks though and it does nothing for me". Why is it silly to accept the classification an artist gives you? If they tell me how I should feel about it and that I should think it is good then the author needs to understand that their authorial intent is dead. I don't think that extends to the classification of the medium they give it though. This bit: ""What is game?" discussions, so now we've got a significant amount of people defining "game" so broadly that literally anything that runs on an integrated circuit can be called a game." Can you give me examples outside of Dear Esther (unsurprisingly I think that it is a game) of this happening? Finally, the suggestion to widen it from Video Game Criticism to Video Media criticism... I don't really know what to say. Games can't be expanded out to encompass Dear Esther, so we have to redefine all known nomenclature so that, some people can feel more comfortable about liking or dismissing certain content? That just sounds like cart before the horse rubbish.

I already answered your proposition. I don't have boundaries - if some one tells me it is a game - it is a game. Now, if the discussion is whether I like it or not that seems valid to me. Most of the controversy that occurred at the time was that people didn't like Dear Esther and didn't like that other people did. So, rather than just go 'I don't like it because I don't', most of the argument (like my own linked comment about Rock Band Beatles) ended up deriding Dear Esther as not rightly in the same category. It became their way of going "This explains why you like it so much and I don't - it is not even a game". Shockingly, I don't think it is the press that fail to understand that but their audience who lambast them any time they go off tangentially into any topic. You only have to look at the comments on Polygon or Eurogamer and you see the same couple of lines of "what does this have to do with x?" or "Keep your x out of my video games". I am fine in disagreeing with you about our definitions of games, in the same way that a lot of people disagree about other art. But I think that 'getting the labelling right' is not useful if an artist is telling you they made a game and you disagree.

Your first paragrpah kind of proves my point. A cup is not a game and Dear Esther is not a game in your eyes and therefore they must be considered 'other' in the game industry. This is something you have decided which then limits the potential audience of something that, the developers, consider to be a game. Labelling is important, so you may not think that 'video poem' is negative or harmful to Dear Esther's success but I can tell you now that I would never have heard of it. I would say that it might be okay to have a Video Poem genre within the game label but again these kind of labels are easy to make into a pejorative. The last examples you gave me are kind of irrelevant as to whether I would be sad if they did call them games, I think there would be value as to whether I enjoyed them and being able to explain why I did/didn't. Also, for levity: http://www.arcadianrhythms.com/2012/07/review-microsoft-excel/ My buddy's review of Excel, in the spreadsheet genre of games.

I find the need for people to cordon stuff off as 'not a game' exclusionary. Although go back a few years and you will find a very different person https://www.idlethumbs.net/forums/topic/5962-the-beatles-game/page-2 Sure, Britney Spiers and Merzbow have nothing in common but they are still music. I am totally fine with dividing up into genres as it helps people discern what they do and don't like but the Game/not Game divide is not appealing.

So, I just finished Thomas Was Alone and immediately started The Swapper. After listening to the talk on Idle Thumbs, I was expecting a very different aesthetic. The dark, brooding, space hulk of an environment was a pleasant surprise. This plays into the story really well that feels subdued in a hard sci-fi sort of a way. The puzzles in the first half of the game were great and it successfully layered complexity on for about 4 hours and then I just hit this brutal wall and had start giving up on puzzle rooms. The game seemed to support this and allowed me to progress as long as I could figure out 50% of them. Then the ending comes up and requires you to finish up all the puzzles, which was really disappointing. Will go back and try and figure them out but it was a real blow to encounter this 'optional content, not actually optional' sort of design. Otherwise, it is really fun and I do like the designers "fuck you" to achievements by hiding them all in really obscure places.

Yup, I also liked Peaky Blinders. What bothered me more is the resolution of the barmaid and Thomas's arc. It was far too clean and ignores a much more interesting outcome.

Caught this band Milk Teeth in a little dive bar in Poland. They sound like Breeders with an additional shouty man occasionally: Very fun.