WickedCestus

I never posted on here much, but I've just realized that it's been somewhere around five years since I started listening to the podcast(s). Though this community is so storied that I still feel like a newcomer. I'm also younger than most of you so I often feel like (and am) a total idiot. I truly hope that Important If True comes back, or really, any podcast featuring any of the Thumbs, but of course I understand the logistical difficulties. The combination of smart discussion with ridiculously stupid humour is something that can't be found anything else, and re-listening to old eps always makes me feel better when I'm down. I guess that's really all I have to say. Idle Thumbs, as a podcast and as a network, has been super important to me. I grew up on forums, like many of you. I was on the Slack for a while but I felt what a lot of people here felt about it going too quickly and just feeling like another thing pinging all the time, even though the discussion was often enjoyable. I don't know if I'll ever refresh a forum the way I used to as a kid, but I do still check over here relatively often to see what's up, even though I don't really post. And my favourite memories have always been Chris reading auto-generated posts. And of course, Jeff jefferson jeff bloom gold jeff gate (I was Screaming with laughter when I first listened to episode 50, and eventually made this video so I didn't have to keep the episode on my phone all the time)

The Hone Zone was veering dangerously close to Jeff Gone Gold territory, my personal favourite Idle Thumbs bit. Probably for the best that you didn't fully revert. That crawfish story gives me the creepy-crawlies. I was lying in bed with a half-fever imagining my room slowly filling up with water lobsters, and feeling the sensation of them tickling my feet. It reminds me of an old daydream/nightmare I used to have in school about if all bugs suddenly quadrupled in size and drowned the human population. Anyway, it's amazing how stupidly cohesive this episode ended up being (, using IIT logic of course, not.. actual logic).

How is it that you guys independently, in conversations almost a year apart, came to the idea of Terminator Clooney robots? I can't tell if I'm dumb for thinking that you didn't realize this, but you guys never mentioned that this episode gets dangerously close to your previous conversation about robots wearing George Clooney's skin, in order to ..uh..do something, I don't really remember. I think this was around the era when you guys were discussing Arnold Schwarzenegger's arm coming back from the future and becoming one of the forty five brains in order to...uhh... Man what is this podcast.

Looks like I'll have to head back in...

Oh! Another thing I noticed is that you seem to earn stars for repeating levels. I feel like this messes with the progression of the game. Couldn't you unlock everything just by replaying the first level over and over? You should max out at 78 stars, but I have 134 lol. I imagine this is a bug.

Wow. Another fantastic game, Zero. I was hooked from the first second, but the addition of the phantom was truly an inspired choice. Absolutely fantastic. Made a point to go through and try to beat all your high scores I love the way everything is communicated visually. After a single run, it is always entirely clear how the new obstacles work. It looks so simple, but it's clear that it was well thought out. There seems to be a slight lag between getting onto a line and being able to jump off of it; I assume this was intentional? At first it was a bit frustrating, but I quickly got used to it. Compared to the rest of the game, that one interaction feels just *slightly* less polished, possibly because there is no obvious indicator of when you will be able to jump. (This might not be necessary though, considering this "lag" is probably measurable only in microseconds.) Obviously, I still enjoyed the heck out of it though.

That is so good. I am listening to this and imagining that he is approaching me at a party and using these as chat-up lines.

I desperately want for this to be true.

The Ace of Spades one gives me a bit of a Van Morrison feel, honestly. Also reminds me of the track from Mouth Moods, ACVC, in just the absolute absurdity of rock vocalists being separated from their backing tracks. As someone who greatly enjoys out-of-genre covers, I am so happy to have been introduced to Songsmith. Also wanna join in on all the In Our Time love; I listened to the ep on Kant's Categorical Imperative because of the pod, and really enjoyed it. I like the producer coming in at the end and asking everyone if they'd like tea or coffee. (I have a vague memory of this show being recommended on another pod I listen to, but can not for the life of me remember where.)

"Obviously, the implications of this are massive and terrifying, but the stupid version of it is ridiculous." This quote from Chris perfectly describes the MO of Important If True.

I hope Nick (two?) enjoys his time in Vancouver! I'm happy the pod is still going.

I think the worst part of the seventeen-hour thing is watching the times when you're just sitting there, doing nothing, and thinking about something. Because seventeen hours later you'll have forgotten what you were thinking about at the time, so you'll just be looking at yourself like "hey do something! come on!" I say this most every week, but this is my favourite ep yet. Absolutely brilliant.

@eRonin it is absolutely hilarious that we posted our responses within seconds of each other.

As someone who's been following and playing Starcraft II for over 6 years (with a few extended breaks), I was surprised to hear Nick's endorsement. It often feels like a game that even people interested in e-Sports as a whole completely overlook, because it had such an unsustainable meteoric rise in the beginning. It seems like people have been predicting the death of the game for years and years, definitely longer than its initial peak period was, and while it's certainly declined, I do think it will maintain a strong loyal community for years to come. I took a break for most of this year, and just started watching again last month, and hey, people are still playing some damn exciting games. I do think it's a difficult game to jump into, but I have also had Nick's experience of introducing a partner to it, and watching them go from zero understanding at all to being able to follow the flow of a match in just a week or so.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the city that's based around a sunken ship to be called "Octlantis"? I feel like they truly goofed these names.

Oh my god infamous space turtle that is amazing. Glad we got another one of Chris' famous bot-generated content reads. Always a crowd pleaser. I can't believe Jake was allowed to just pass on his endorsement. Are there no rules!? Are you going to let your podcast descend into complete anarchy only 29 episodes in?

That channel has a lot of great videos related to masculinity in pop culture. I strongly suggest checking more of them out. Thanks for sharing it, clyde. I find it really difficult sometimes to grapple with the idea of masculinity and femininity, and the relationship between identity and expression. It's sometimes hard to define masculinity in ways that don't just seem like reinforcing stereotypes. However, whenever aspects of masculinity are pointed out to me in terms of "here is something men do a lot", and then explaining why it is expected of men, how it is reinforced, and why it is good or bad, it often resonates with me super clearly. That's what I think this channel is good at doing. Something like the video about the "Born Sexy Yesterday" trope is a great way to approach how certain types of relationships are presented in ways that support a dominant form of masculinity in a way that is degrading to women.

I have a feeling that there is something to the fact that Laura tells Coop "I'll see you again in 25 years", and then Coop ends the series by asking "What year is it?" I don't know if this has been brought up before, since this is the only Twin Peaks-related forum I frequent, but the fact that it cuts to Laura whispering in Coop's ear at the end definitely evokes that line from the original series. I don't really like to get too concrete, but I do think that this association gels with the idea that Coop was attempting to follow the directions/clues that have been provided to him in the Red Room/White Lodge throughout the series, and has failed, either because he has followed them incorrectly, or maybe conversely because he has adhered to them too strictly. This plays into the idea suggested in the pod about Cooper's intuitiveness being a double-edged sword. Often, he acts without regard for the feelings of other people, just because of his own visions and whims. It seems to me that his downfall at the end is strongly related to this flaw. I think it's interesting to look at his story in the show as an in-depth, yet abstract look into his character. We spend so little time with him acting as himself, but I think we actually learn more about Dale Cooper's psyche than we did in the original series. Dougie explores the positive, almost transcendent version of him, where he has internalized the world to such an extent that he acts effortlessly, seemingly unknowingly, in ways that produce positive results. Then, there's Mr. C, who uses his intuition and strength to forcefully enact change in the world purely out of self-interest. And then there is the Coop who appears at the very beginning and end, who seems to follow his intuition so closely and literally that it leads him to some sort of cosmic despair. I don't think the ending is necessarily an indictment of Coop as a whole; each version of Coop is just an example of the good or bad that can result from this one aspect of his character. It all fits together to me in a way that is so ethereal and abstract that it's hard for me to put it into words, but this is my best attempt.

I'd never heard of a rebus before this podcast and I'm happy to live in a reality where this is their only format.

@Don't Go There This is a really good post. I'm also disappointed by the dropping of several threads, and especially Annie. I don't think she was executed very well in Season 2 (almost nothing was), but I think she could've fit perfectly into this season, which is much more focused on the character of Cooper and his various flaws and traumas. However, I think I read in the Oral History that Lynch didn't like how Season 2 tried to introduce a tragic backstory to Cooper, and so it seems like Lynch has spent this whole season, especially the final episode, digging deeper into Cooper's humanity in his own way, without the need of goofy Wyndam Earle nonsense. That's just a deliberate retcon, and I think it's silly for Frost to try to explain it as anything other than that. I agree with everything else you said. I really wish we could've seen more Audrey. I think the reason I disliked 18 so much on first viewing was because I really expected us to get some sort of conclusion or extension of Audrey's story, and as the whole thing dragged on and on, I kept thinking "Stop wasting time and get to Audrey (and everything else) already!", and when it became clear that there absolutely wasn't enough time for that, I was pretty disappointed. I love the finale as an ending to Cooper's story (Laura's ending came in FWWM, I feel), and looking back, I'm happy with the season, and willing to accept all the scenes and character plots as just their own thing. That doesn't make them good storytelling, however. That's just me trying to come to terms with it. I'm glad I read your post, because it really helped me put into terms all of my conflicting feelings about this show. Twin Peaks has always been a show I loved, mashed together with several shows I don't love, and a good heap of weird nonsense on the top. Somehow, that still equals love in the end, but it's a strange, confused form of love. Maybe that just makes it all the more powerful.

The idea that David Lynch is in any way interested in creating a TV series simply to be antagonistic or say "screw you" to his audience is absurd to me. Why would anyone bother creating art, let alone such personal, creative, difficult-to-parse art if their only goal was to make others mad? Dude puts his life into this stuff, and it's clear when you listen to him speak that he holds within himself a deep love and respect for humanity, and some sort of desire to share something with all of us. These interpretations just read completely hollow to me. I understand being upset that the show didn't resolve properly (I was kinda bothered by Episode 18 at first), but I don't think there's any need to devalue the work like that. The more I think about this finale, the more I appreciate it. A lot of that is thanks to the discussion on here, and giving myself some time to reflect. Even with my expectations set to "this is gonna be strange", I was still surprised by the ending. Distilling the story back to Cooper and Laura, and Coop's final attempt to save her. It's just incredible. That final scream is absolutely haunting.

It definitely felt like 17 and 18 are two different endings to two different shows, both of which fit into the various versions of Twin Peaks. It has always felt like Twin Peaks exists in a couple different modes; 18 skews more towards Fire Walk With Me, while 17 feels like it's an extension of the ending of Season 2. Throughout the whole season, The Return has felt like it's sometimes elegantly, sometimes inelegantly, blending together these divergent ideas of Twin Peaks, and so it only fits that it has to end twice. At least, that's how I see it. What an experience, though. The whole thing. I still don't even know what to feel. I'm so glad that I was able to watch this show with all of you. Twin Peaks on Sunday has been the highlight of my week for the last few months, and the first thing I do after each ep is come onto this forum to see what everyone has to say. And then, midweek, I'd get to listen to the podcast. This has, without a doubt, been the best experience I've had with a TV show. So thanks everyone for sharing this. Excited to do it all again during the Twin Peaks The Return Re-Watch Podcast comin' in 2020.

While I loved the scenes with Dale Cooper back, they only made me appreciate more the decision to keep him as Dougie this whole time. I was talking to my friends who don't watch the show today about Dougie before I watched the episode, and it really cemented to me how much I enjoyed his antics, and the way he gave the show an entirely different feel. I love Old Coop, and I love New Old Coop, but I don't think they could have sustained him for 18 episodes. I think Lynch and McLachlan realized that you just can't capture that performance in the same way again; it's always going to feel just a little bit off, and I think that would have become more clear and uncomfortable if this had been a show entirely about Normal Dale Cooper. Glad to still get a few hours with him though I was disappointed that the theories about Mr. C raping Diane and likely also Audrey were confirmed. I don't know how I feel about it, necessarily. For the most part, the fact that Mr. C is evil has been expressed in this show through his mistreatment of women, from Darya to Diane. It's very uncomfortable. I mean, it's supposed to be uncomfortable. Still trying to reckon with myself how I feel about this, because generally I dislike stories that rely so heavily on themes of abuse and gratuitous violence. I will continue to read everyone's thoughts about this on our forum here, because I think there have been plenty of interesting discussions about this up until now. I'm excited for next week, although I'll be sad, obviously, for the show to end. It's been quite a ride. And as always, I still have absolutely zero idea what is going to happen next. I think it's saying "Threat Neutralized"?

BTW, I loved the extra bits of post-production in this ep. The millennial news broadcast cracked me up. This ep was a great mix of hilarious bits and also some interesting future-discussion at the end. Probably one of my favourite episodes so far!

AFAIK, "cupping" is a medical treatment that used to be used as a pain reliever. The way I heard it (which may not be how people do it nowadays) was a flame was lit inside of the cup and then removed, so that when it suctioned onto the skin it created a vacuum of hot air, which was supposed to help blood flow or some other thing. I heard about it from a woman who grew up in Russia and said she experienced it as a kid, and it was painful as hell. I don't know what people in San Francisco are doing with it, but I'm going to assume you're right that it has something to do with toxins.