Gormongous

Tycho, that is a whole lot of text to post and not really address what Zeusthecat meant. I think there are plenty of games that the Thumbs play (or don't play) and have opinions about (or don't have opinions about) that they talk about (or don't talk about) on the podcast. Saying, "I love hearing you talk about X and Y games, I'd like to hear what you have to say about Z games too" is not the beginning of some slippery slope that ends in Idle Thumbs being like every game podcast. It's feedback from fans that lines up with some of the forms the podcast has historically taken already. So yeah, maybe just chill out. Don't you remember that one episode where the Thumbs make fun of people being hostile towards anyone giving their opinion to game developers, because they're afraid it'll taint the next game the devs make? They know what they're doing, all we have to do is tell them how we really feel.

See, that's kinda crap though, because which should have meant more to him based on what the game communicated to me about his character. I didn't even really have minded that Kenny's rampant hypocrisy, except that at no point was there an option to make Lee be like, "You make no sense, Kenny." Surely that thought occurred to Lee at least once, even just by the end of episode three. EDIT: I'm focusing too much on this one character beat (or lack thereof), aren't I? No script is perfect.

I don't really know if I agree with either of you, but you both have your thumbs pretty heavy on the scales when describing the Pixar movies you don't like. Finding Nemo has as much to say about fatherhood as Up has about old age. Neither is particularly paltry or jokey, but I could see either not working for someone.

I'm not saying that they should force themselves to play different games. In fact, I said exactly the opposite. But the situation does come up fairly often lately where a circle of good friends who've shared each others' company and tastes for so long tends to develop a consensus really quickly. I miss some of the out-and-out differences of opinion that were pretty common in the first run of Idle Thumbs. Jake is still the best for questioning Chris' and Sean's opinions, but I feel like it doesn't happen as often as it used to, which is why outside voices are welcome within that circle of friends. All that might just be my own impression, though. And I really disagree with you about Crusader Kings II. Sure, we all knew they'd love it, but they don't have a history playing that sort of game at all. The last grand strategy game that one of them played was Hearts of Iron III back in episode 58, which they mostly teased (a tape-recorded) Nick over how boring it sounded. Before that, was it Empire: Total War in episode 22? That also didn't get much gameplay discussion, what with Nick's crazy saga of trying to get it installed.

The patronizing intros he does before Miyazaki movies, where he congratulates the viewer on their good taste and promises that they'll have a good time, must not be paying the bills these days.

None of the other games besides the oft-forgotten Europa Universalis: Rome have character systems. I mean, the main Europa Universalis games do, but really just as a temporary modifier for your nation. What transfers is the world-state, however the political and religious map have turned out over the past four or six hundred years of gameplay. Honestly, it's of little appeal to me, if only because the world map looks like a big pile of shit at 1453 no matter what, but some people might get a kick out of a Scandinavian world-empire or Aztecs in Ireland.

You forgot Vicky!

I bit on the Europa Universalis IV preorder, so I've got a gift copy of the Crusader Kings II base game for one of the three people who haven't been convinced by the Thumbs stream.

Multiplayer games take as long as singleplayer games, which is as long as interest holds. Multiple sessions are usually a given. Games are "hosted" from a single save file, so people are able to miss sessions or join late, picking up wherever the AI left off. I keep really terrible hours here in the USA so I'll at least be able to party with EU folks.

I kinda agree. Maybe it was just the slightly abortive conversations about Bioshock Infinite and The Last of Us, but it feels like there aren't as many games being played out of the Thumbs' comfort zone. Granted, it used to be because they had jobs as game journalists, and now there's no good reason they shouldn't use their free time to always be playing something in their wheelhouse, but I think a lot of what's made the Crusader Kings II streams and discussion so interesting and popular is how novel it is to Chris and Nick, how it forces them to really react, I don't know.

I am still only on episode four, because I forget I own this game for months at a time, but I feel you about Kenny so much. Interacting with him pointed out to me the limitations of the dialogue and save system more than anything else. If I only ever let him down that one time in the freezer, I want to be able to call him on his bullshit. As it stood, he just felt like that shallow friend who won't let you forget how you were too busy to pick them up at the airport one Thursday four years ago. At the very least, let me tell him he's a hypocrite, if he can't be made to act consistently! EDIT: Loving the rest of the game, though. I've never had so many moments stick in my craw like this.

I just spent six hours in the demo and really hit my stride. I'll post my thoughts in the strategy game forum.

Well, I looked up how to host through direct IP, since the metaserver's down again, and opened the relevant ports (1630 through 1640 TCP & UDP). The claim bandied around the forum is that desync happens mostly when the host's PC is slower than the other players', so hopefully my overclocked i7 from a couple years ago will stand the test of time. Just let me know when and if anyone wants to play. I'm free this weekend, especially Sunday.

I just feel a little left out. The whole "lords" thing is the first Idle Thumbs meme that's really been lost on me, maybe because I'm a medieval historian by trade and therefore the idea of a "lord" isn't this ridiculous video game thing.

That's fair. I still think playing with a support network would help a little, but maybe once you've figured out all the early-game pitfalls yourself.

Any player can speed up, slow down, or pause the game for everyone. It's generally agreed-upon etiquette to play at 2x or something and only pause when necessary. Also, I don't really want to say this, because people should play games how they want, but maybe restarting the game the moment something goes bad misses the point of Crusader Kings II? There's so few points of absolute failure that quitting just makes you lose out on the "let's get out of this mess we got ourselves in" angle that is exactly what makes the Thumbs stream fun to watch. And even if you did get wiped out by a holy war or a non-dynastic heir, you could just jump into a different ruler and keep playing.

I really really think it'd be good if everyone interested in playing a learning game were to join one big multiplayer game as rulers not likely to come into conflict with each other. That way, the game chat could be a live help thread, because everyone could look at everyone else's stuff. In fact, I'm going to post this in the Multiplayer Networking subforum.

Sometimes I wonder if the dildo-obsessed marketing campaign of the later Saints Row games has actually attracted more fans than it's alienated.

I've been playing Paradox games intensively for eight years now and can make Crusader Kings II sing like a harp, but man if jumping right into playing Austria wasn't a huge fuck-you to all that knowledge and experience. I guess it's nice that the demo includes full-featured tutorials. Time to start over from scratch, again.

Sorry, next time I'll use words like "fiddlesticks" and "balderdash" so as not to alarm you, Twig.

I'd find it somewhat like a cack-handed attempt to reference the "sexism in games" zeitgeist, if I were feeling uncharitable. Regardless, it's silly that "nonviolent" and "pacifist" are not the immediate words that came to mind. After all, that's what people complained about with Bioshock Infinite. The gender and race stuff was subordinate to playing the incredibly proficient serial killer of a fantasy city in the sky.

Yesssss. It's been so long, but at last! Automatic "end plot" requests, too. If they ever implement rally points for levies, they'll have added every usability feature I've wanted since the beginning.

Yeah, Crusader Kings II is a funny game, because it's all about people, except that people die, so it's really more about the land people hold. That said, every single vassal revolted during the big civil war that Nick won, giving him one free revoke for each. He could have revoked the duchy of Ulster, breaking up the hostile power bloc that makes up one third of his kingdom, then given it back to someone else. He could then have handed out the two Welsh ducal titles, since the Welsh counts controlled by Ulster would be his direct vassals again. And he could have revoked the counties of Desmond and Ossory, given someone else the county of Kildare, and transferred it to the duke of Tara. That way, he'd hold only two ducal titles himself (the maximum before maluses start applying to vassal opinion), be the strongest & most popular lord in Ireland again, and have punished all his enemies with disenfranchisement. By executing the duke of Ulster, he just kicked the problem down a generation. The duchy is still too powerful and the Thumbs can't keep its rulers happy. Come on, the untimely death of a long-awaited heir is Crusader Kings II's grenade-rolling-down-a-hill moment. I sure hope they buck up, playing a mix of short-term claims fabrication and long-term marriage claims is where the game hits its stride. Even just marrying collateral heirs to the children of Scottish dukes would be good (matrilineally, if you're marrying your daughter to them), since members of your dynasty become your vassal when you press their claim.

That's it, I give up. None of the things you've said in this thread are sexist, thestalkinghead. Every other poster has just misunderstood you. Phaedrus out.

He didn't twist your words. It would be one thing if BigJKO were cherry-picking things and taking them out of context, but he's not. Those are complete, standalone statements that you made. You are just refusing to deal with the consequences of saying them. Look, I'm sure you have the best intentions. We all do. But it's time to step back and realize that a girls' video game about "hugs, chocolate, and interior decorating" is just as sexist as a video game about "hot chicks making out and having a slumber party." If you feel you have been misinterpreted in some way, then it's fine to clarify. But if you're saying things that people understand and they just disagree, then maybe you should hold off with calling them "childish" for doing so.