Episode 223: God Help the Marines on Iwo Jima

[Rob Zacny]

Evan Lahti joins Rob to talk about Red Orchestra 2: Rising Storm (a totally LEGIT strategy topic). They discuss why it outstrips Heroes of Stalingrad, how it does faction design right, and the role of asymmetry.

 

Listen

[hexgrid]

There's no need (IMO) to be defensive about discussing a game like this on a strategy podcast.  Between the squad-level tactics and the subject matter, it's well within the scope of the podcast.

 

I occasionally wonder how much further the infrastructure will need to progress before we can do a game like this on a truly epic scale; Iwo Jima was (referencing Wikipedia here...) 22K Japanese defenders vs. 70K American attackers.  Put a command layer on top, let the defenders fortify before the attack comes, let the attackers have recon info and plan the assault... there's an MMO I'd actually play.

[Adam Beckett]

Having served in the Army, I am neither interested nor interested in getting good in Call of Duty or Battlefield type of multiplayer (arcade) games. I love the depth of Arma 2, but lack the friends these days, to play it - or any multiplayer game - "Shacktac/Dslyecxi" style. Many elements Evan Lahti & Rob Zacny expressed so eloquently in the podcast resonate with my own experiences I have so far with Rising Storm.

 

I only stumbled over the game last week, while playing Stalingrad in Company of Heroes 2 and finally installing Red Orchestra 2, getting the Rising Storm multiplayer maps for free. If you have not bought the game at first, you are limited to play as an Infantry Rifleman only. But even that, or *especially* that limitation, is a perfect setup and introduction to this game? Playing as a Japanese Infantry soldier on the Guadacanal map is something, I want keep playing, again and again. It is an amazing experience.

 

Advancing with your fellow Infantry squad members, cover by cover, progressing slowly. The back and forth of shooting encounters - your squad mate next to you, getting shot, while you are reloading. At the same time you watch your enemy 50 yards away, doing the same thing, hoping you are able to aim and shoot first, seeing him in the eye - feeling the "duration of time" in such moments makes this game very special? The painful length of reloading, is something you have to deal in real life too. During this moment you are helpless and hope not to get shot. You hope, you won't drop a bullet while reloading, you hope your weapon won't jam ... it leaves room for you to *feel* the anxiety, to *feel* the panic or tension of "will I make it", while in other FPS games, this mechanic is just a minor nuisance?

 

I really enjoy "asymetric" warfare too. "Unbalanced" parties are nothing I am afraid of. I do not mind fighting on the "weaker" side, even losing all the time, if you have the game mechanics, which allow for rich gameplay. This game seems to offer this.

[Adam Beckett]

I don't know, if anyone else is interested in this. I stumbled over a document on archive.org: 

 

Notes on Jungle Warfare from the U.S. Marines and U.S. Infantry on Guadalcanal Island

"Close-up of Guadalcanal, October-November 1942: verbatim statements of participants" written February 1, 1943. Sections include leadership and use of staff, control, characteristics of this individual soldier, American tactics and methods, Japanese tactics and methods, recommendations for training, weapons, equipment and supply, sanitation and first aid, and communications."

 

http://archive.org/details/NotesOnJungleWarfare

 

It is a fascinating read, IMHO.

[MikeO]

Rob, I really enjoyed this episode, enough so that I went ahead and bought Rising Storm. I think I have played about all the so called 'realistic' shooters since Day of Defeat, although I passed on RO2. I did play RO1. I'm with you, RS comes across as more appealing than RO (I have played a few matches online on RO2 Stalingrad maps, but I came across a lot of stuff that turned me off on RO1 -- people with names like 'gestapo_john', and '--SS--Heydrich', and garbage like that, and I just generally get killed immediately when I leave total cover). I like the maps better than most of the RO Russian front maps, and I like the way the sides play quite differently.

 

One thing that I really don't like that much about these types of shooters is the completely hardcore enemy/ friend ID. It adds some tension, sure, but I am always petrified over team killing by accident, and the Japanese and Americans on a lot of these maps are not at all easy to differentiate. In fact, on my first night playing, I was Japanese on the Iwo Jima map, and I followed about 10 yards behind another Japanese player for at least five seconds, not positive if he was friend or foe. I finally fired a burst at him, and fortunately missed, since I got a better angle on him and saw he was an ally. Now, it does get better the longer you play the game, but I think it should be a little easier, when everyone is playing on different monitor sizes at different resolutions. My favorite shooter ever was probably BF1942, and I think that game had friend/ enemy icons when you got to closer ranges. (yeah, I know games like RS are striving for something different than that, but I still think it's just too difficult on 2d monitors)

 

I could not agree with you more on the graphics. They look good enough, generally speaking, but the use of lighting is fantastic. It's a huge improvement over the Russian maps, and it has gameplay implications. Well done.