Twig

I'm not! There's plenty of inoffensive stuff that I find hilarious. That doesn't mean I'm going to suddenly for no reason believe that all humor should be inoffensive. And, I'm sorry, but you're not going to convince me that I'm wrong.

All these complaints about GC version of BG&E just make me want to play BG&E again.

I really wish I would do more of this. It's hard to stay motivated when I keep getting shut down. U: Yeah. Although, honestly, all I want at this point is a job to pay the bills. I don't care about anything else. It could be the shittiest job in the world, and I'd take it. And then proceed to continue looking for a better job! Hell, even if I get a really shitty job, at least I can still work on my own little side projects as a hobby.

That is a great clip.

Argh stop apologizing for me being bullied. It's not a big deal and I don't care and I never said it was comparable to being shit on because you're black or whatever. Everyone is bullied! ARGH. edit: forgot a word! DON'T CARE DON'T And, you know, I've been mocked plenty of times in my life for not being "man enough" or whatever. Not fulfilling (or being expected to fulfill) gender roles is something that happens on both sides. Undeniably(!) worse for women, but it's not like men have never experienced it. I DO know where this stuff comes from. I'm not ignorant of it. I don't have to imagine, because I've experienced it, and I've been around people who have had it worse (both men and women, black and white, whatever). Nooooo, I said that it happens everywhere, but that I see it happen most often with feminists. It's entirely possible that that's just because it gets the most, uh, "press" among the people I interact with. also i'm horrible about making posts 'cause i just keep editing and editing and editing i'm so sorry

The thing that originally sparked all of this was when I said it annoys me that people get upset at something that is clearly a joke, whether it's satire or excessive hyperbole or whatever. It's a joke. I think it's an incredible waste of everyone's time to get in an uproar over something like that. Also, yes, that blurry line is exactly the problem with all of our arguments. There is no goddamn line. It's different for every person, so how can we assume one person's line is going to be the same as your line or my line or his line or her line. So, for me, it's impossible to pass judgment on another human being based on anything other than what they do. If they make an offhand comment about a sandwich and then the next day go on to donate money to that women in video games kickstarter thing... are they a bad person? Answer: no, and I won't hold the sandwich thing against them, except for that they make unfunny jokes. If the same guy makes that comment repeatedly over the course of a few years before donating money, I'll begin to suspect whether or not he's actually joking. When he later proves he was joking and that he actually cares about women's rights through the act of donating, then I'll forgive him for being horribly unfunny. If the guy never donates but performs another action etc blah blah repeat ad nauseam. If he never does anything that proves he cares about equality between men and woman, but also never does anything to prove he's AGAINST it... then who am I to judge him? He's just some dude making unfunny jokes. There is an obvious difference between the asshole who hates women having any power and the idiot who thinks he's funny. I mean, I've lived my whole life during an era where the word "gay" is used as an insult, and yet I know that none of my friends who use it are actually against homosexuality. I used to do it, too, but one day I just decided to stop. Some people never reach that point, for whatever reason. It's lame. Hell, I've had gay friends who use the word as an insult, and they're fully aware of the implications. God, I could come up with a dozen examples of similar situations throughout my life. More, undoubtedly, if I really took the time to think about it. Gender, sexuality, race, religion, politics. Whatever the hell. This has now reached the point of running around in circles. Most of my posts have simply been rephrasing things or clarifying in different ways. It's driving me crazy!

Okay, I agree with all of that. I don't think any of it runs counter to what I've been trying to say. U:

No, I'm not talking about professional comedians exclusively. But I am talking about that sort of context. Also, "casual sexist comments" are not jokes. Something like "make me a sandwich" is not a joke. It is an insult. Now, it might be used as a joke between two people who have known each other for a long time. That's different. I would also argue that it could easily be used in a manner that is obviously a joke ON THE INTERNET to STRANGERS and be okay (even if it's not funny). Just casually dropping it is obviously wrong, and the intent is not to joke, no matter what they might say. Etc. But regardless of the details, you guys still disagree with the core of my argument, as evidenced by the past three pages or so, which is where we should just agree to disagree.

And what if it's a woman making the jokes? This happens. In real life. There are female comedians, you know! And sometimes they talk about how ladies is ladies!

I've never once talked about brushing off sexist comments as jokes. I've explicitly said I'm NOT talking about that, more than once, I feel like.

Well, yes! I said as much at some point! People entirely have the right to be offended and walk away from someone telling jokes. They even have the right to explain why they're offended, and maybe the comedian in question will feel bad and understand and avoid telling such jokes in the future. But they don't have the right to demand the comedian cease telling those jokes. My position on this has always been as such. It is up to the comedian to decide whether or not he or she will stop making such jokes.

Well, then why does everyone keep yelling at me*, because all I've ever talked about was jokes! *Exaggeration for the sake of comedy!

When I was at GDC, I showed off my student game to Tripwire (of Killing Floor, Red Orchestra fame), and they loved it. They were really into it, in fact. Said I was a prime candidate for a position they were filling. That's an almost direct quote! Well, awesome! So I kept in contact with the guy. "We're not hiring quite yet". Oh okay. Kept in contact. "Still not hiring, but let's talk on the phone." Did it. "Still not hiring, but in a month or two we will be." Okay. Nothing from him around that time. I email him. "We already filled the position." Well fuck. Now I'm sad. Of all the companies to actually respond to me, they were my number one choice. They're keeping my resume on file, though! Yay. Aghhh. In other less sad news, I made it through the initial phone screening and now the programming test for another company. I've got the first of two additional one-hour coding-focused phone screenings next week. I hate live programming tests. I am bad at tests in general, and now I have to do it live in FRONT OF PEOPLE. Ugh. And also I've got an enormous project due Friday at midnight. WORK WORK WORK.

Everyone hates me! You know, in the case of comedy, the audience has the choice to ignore and walk away if they don't find it funny. The worst thing about what all of you are saying is that, if you had your way, every single comedian would have to censor themselves constantly. They'd have no choice. Every joke would be about hamburgers being too raw or sidewalks having cracks in them or "oh my god that traffic was so bad am I right or am I right". Anything that's not "safe" has a chance to offend somebody. There's no way to avoid it 100% of the time unless you're going to talk about the most inane shit. Race, gender, sexuality. These are all sources of discrimination and that's horrible. But they're also magnificent fuel for comedy, whether you like it or not. In fact, most of the fuel for comedy comes from the Bad Shit that happens in our lives. But, okay, we take those out. Violence in general! I'm going to assume none of us here would ever maim, murder, or rape, because if any would, then this conversation is null and void anyway. Doesn't mean it's not open to jokes! Take that out, too, because someone else will be offended. That leaves cancer, AIDS, all kinds of other diseases. People might have relatives that have died because of these things! Take those out. Etc. etc. etc. What does that leave? Where do we draw the line? We can't spend all of our time worrying about the audience, or we won't have any comedy left. And then, what if a guy whose father died of cancer is the one making the cancer jokes? Is he then forgiven? Or does he still have to worry about it? What if a black guy is the one joking about black people being slaves, or being lynched? What if a woman is joking about making a sandwich (god forbid) or what if she's a rape victim telling a rape joke? Give me a hard line that can never be crossed. Until then, it's literally impossible to ask this of people. I don't get it. You can't spend your time worrying about every shitty thing that might have happened to every single person. On an individual, one-to-one encounter is where these things truly matter. The audience can always walk away. I really can't say anything more without just repeating myself, and also everything you guys are saying now is just a repeat. Maybe we should just agree to disagree. U: Also: That was a half-jokey comment. See! It's undeniable that black culture at the time contributed greatly to the development of jazz music (in fact, you could argue that jazz wouldn't exist, otherwise!), and yet somehow it triggered a negative response! I don't want to live in this world anymore. ) : EDIT: oh god i hate these stupid colon crying faces so much D: EDIT EDIT: However, I will concede that there is a place and time for these things. I actually never meant to imply that there WASN'T, so I'm sorry if it came off that way. I realized only moments ago that that might be one of the bigger sources of contention here! If someone were to go to a therapist's office and loudly joke about rape where a rape victim might be present, even if their intent is to get a laugh, that's fucking awful, and that person should feel ashamed. In such a case, the audience obviously can't just walk away. But if they're a stand-up comedian, or if they're doing a comedy podcast, or whatever... Context is also important.

Well, that's actually what I meant. Except that I believe it's always the case that people shouldn't be allowed to MAKE them stop (provided the intent is, in fact, not to harm, but to joke). Also, this is pretty much all I'll say on the topic, unless someone asks a specific question. I feel like I've explained my position fairly well. U:

Yes, and that's all terrible, horrible shit, because of the intention behind it. The purpose of jokes is to call this stuff out for what it is: stupid. It does it in a way that makes people laugh. Not all people, but enough people, or the jokes wouldn't exist. Again, there's a difference between a comedian mocking women for being women and a dude actually thinking LESS of women for being women. Anyway, this is what I'm talking about. I will always feel this way. For me, it's all about intent. Jokes are jokes. If the intent is to harm, BAD. If the intent is not to harm, FINE. The root is irrelevant. Only the intent matters. I believe this very strongly. It is core to my entire existence. I've seen that Morgan Freeman clip before. As much as I respect the intent (heh), it stems from ignorance. As long as human beings exist as unique individuals, it is impossible to not judge each other on some level. Until we're all just grey blob clones of each other, we cannot possibly ignore our differences. It's how we react to these differences that marks us as good or bad people. Despite the vast majority of African-Americans I grew up with bullying me constantly, I hold literally no ill will toward them or any other member of that race. But I recognize that a great many of them belong to a significantly different subculture than my own. That's great. That's wonderful, in fact! That's what I love most about the human race. The diversity, and what stems from that diversity! It can result in some truly horrendous stuff, as we all know well from studying history, and even from current events... but I would never want that diversity to go away. I mean, imagine a world without jazz. What a horrible world that would be!

I mean I obviously agree that it's all about the intent of the words. If the intent is to hurt, that person is a shithead. If the intent is to poke fun... I am of the opinion that no one has the right to tell them to stop. I understand that people are still going to be hurt by these things, regardless, but... if something were to bother me? I'd either ignore it, or embrace it. In junior high, people would call me "rat boy" ('cause I got some genetic issues with me toofs). It bothered me a lot at first. When I hit high school, I decided to just embrace it with the new kids, 'cause I knew the people who followed me from grade school would spread it around again. One of my new friends eventually dubbed me Splinter (after TMNT's ratman, hah). I share this anecdote in the hopes to further clarify the backbone of my philosophy. U:

Quite the opposite! If it's a joke, I'm assuming people DON'T mean to offend. Certainly not universally true, but... eh. I'd rather assume the best in people until proven wrong than get upset at every little thing people say.

I feel the same way regardless of the target of the mockery.

Well they're the same thing. Combat in general is way too laggy. Netcode in Minecraft is awful. In SP I can kill monsters without ever getting hit with a sword. In multiplayer, if I wait until they're in range for a sword swing, they attack me at the same time every time. If I try to swing ahead of time... they take no damage and I get hit anyway.

I dunno if I could ever do such a thing since multiplayer monsters are so annoyingly laggy. I wish they weren't, because otherwise I'd love to try.

Find any joke that offends you, and I promise I won't be offended by it. I know that's a ludicrous claim to make, but I can't even recall the last time a joke offended me! I have been made uncomfortable, but in such cases, I am positive that was the point of the joke! Sometimes comedy is intended to make you uncomfortable - that's part of the comedy. "Oh man, I really am a horrible person. I totally thought like that one time! Now let's all laugh at ourselves for being such miserable sacks of shit, ha ha ha." I read the thing. I have always completely understood why people believe offensive humor to be a problem, but I have never agreed with it. I also don't agree that I should have to change myself - or others, themselves - because there are some seriously shitty people in the world. I mean, for the record, I do give in. I never make jokes that I think people might find offensive, at least until I learn more about their tolerance. I can appreciate and respect that not everyone is as grossly tolerant of bullshit as I can be. It just bothers me a lot.

This is where I absolutely do not agree. It is a problem because people let it be a problem. I am offended because jokes aren't funny, not because the content is offensive. "MAKE ME A SAMMICH", for example, is just a stupid joke. It has not been funny to me since I grew out of the age when insulting people for the sake of insulting people was amusing. Sure, I roll the fuck outta my eyes when I hear a joke like that, but that's all it deserves. An eye-rolling and subsequent dismissal. Ignore jokes if you don't find them funny. Maybe even be a little offended! But keep it to yourself, because the next time you're laughing at a joke, know that someone, somewhere out there, is gonna be crying themselves to sleep if they hear you laughing at THAT JOKE. Also! Some people will use that sandwich line with the intention of actually causing emotional distress. That is not a joke, anymore. It's all about context. If it's a joke, it's a joke. If it's not a joke, it's not a joke. The only thing I care about when it's a joke is whether or not it's funny. Besides, taken out of context, most everything anyone says could be found offensive to someone on the planet. I think it's ridiculous that people let words hurt them so much. What're you gonna do? Cut everyone's tongues out? I only shared the story because it's an amusing anecdote tangentially related to what I was talking about - being The White Dude. I think it's hilarious what happened to me, and I harbor no ill will toward anyone involved. I guess also I should say that even though I am The White Dude and have no idea what it's like to be hounded for that (aside from that anecdote), I do know very much what it's like to be bullied nonstop for years on end. The butt of many jokes. I dealt with it by growing a thicker skin. Maybe some people are just incapable of growing a thicker skin. I dunno. I also never said that. I said that it often happens that way. Jokes offend the fuck out of people of all categories. Sometimes they're offended on behalf of others, and sometimes they're offended on behalf of themselves. Everyone has this arbitrary line that cannot be crossed, but that line is completely dynamic depending on the topic under heat. Some people will be offended by jokes about race and not offended by jokes about abortion. Some people will be offended by jokes about politics and not offended by jokes about rape. It's stupid. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. I've sort of steered this topic in a direction that I didn't really intend. This is why I avoided talking for so long! );

This is from that game. [media=] [/media]I enjoy making these videos. EDIT: Another! Sometimes I really do feel like an asshole because we stomp the other team so hard, but they make for amusing little things like this. Also normally I wouldn't embed the videos when I post a whole bunch of them like this, because it takes up a lot of vertical space, but this forum does that automatically!

This happened a while ago, but I only just now got around to recording it.