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Bah, too many good games coming out to quickly, I think I'll wait until this hits stores here instead of order online. I already got like five games that need to be finished, then there's Half-Life.... I can't wait, though.

I have to say I support what Valve is doing all the way, internet activation and all. It's pretty much necessary. I'm mean, even I can get most games for free within a few days no problem on my dial-up connection. This just really has to stop. I have to say sometimes I'm kind of happy when I get a corrupt music download on Kazaa, just brings me that much closer to stop being lazy and setup an account for legitimate music service.

I think the bottom line here that we ALL can agree on is that this is exploitation, and the developers are just trying to stir up controversy to get some attention, and very likely some quick cash. ThunderPeel2001 is, as I see it, merely questioning if this is really stands alone as being as bad as some people are making it out to be. And I think he's made some legitimate points, and I don't think it's as simple as him being right or wrong. By the way, Postal 1 & 2 were fun, weather any of you'll admit it or not. (And Jake, have you admitted to yourself yet that your friend is crazy? ...Sorry, I just don't like it when I feel I made a good point, and the person my point was directed towards ignores it and moves on to an easier debate. Not that this has happened to me before, so I actaully just now learned that I don't like it when this happens...contrary to what I implied.... )

I'm being kicked out of house for a week for de-leding (or some stupid shit), so I'm forced to wait until the 30th to get this game. (Or get it now and play it for a day then be forced to not play it for a week...nah, I couldn't handle that.) Hopefully these problems will have been fixed or smoothed over by then.

Firstly, just because I like playing the devils advocate, the developers have stated the purpose of this game is to prove that there could have been only one shooter, so they do have a point they are trying to make (I guess, they didn't need to make it into a game, though).... But anyways, if you did somehow find a way to make a movie or TV show that 'conveyed you as being victorious and a winner for shooting Kennedy' (how in hell would you do that? ) people definitely would shit all over you, and you wouldn't be able to get on TV or in Theaters, in retail stores, or get funding to make it. But you would be able to make it with your own money and release it online with your own bandwidth. Though you still would get shit on. But wait...this is exactly what has been done with the video game...so I still don't see any point in what your friend said.... ( ...Just kidding.) For the record I'm with all you guys in thinking this is a lame publicity trick to make some quick cash, I'm just in a debating mood.

That's pushing it. If he meant a stall at a fair when he said 'no other medium' then I might just eat my shorts.

Very good points. If he really thinks that all games should be dumb and simple like the ones he makes, then he maybe should just leave the gaming industry and divert all his genius to his spaceships. (Maybe not though, because I'm sure some great games will come of his new engine...plus I loved Doom 3 for the first few hours....) If he, on the other hand, thinks there should be variety in the industry, with the smart and the stupid (with him doing his part in providing the stupid), then I agree with him and think he should keep on trucking. One quote I read somewhere was I think him saying that he thought there shouldn't have been a physics engine in Doom 3, because physics really are just a gimmick. If he said that, then that was a stupid thing to say, because I don't at all see how physics are any more of a gimmick the real-time lighting and normal mapping (in other words: not at all). I think Id would be better off if Johnny had no creative say in their games, and they just stuck him in a room to do the programming.

"I don't understand why that kind of thing can be made in games where nobody anywhere would be able to get away with it in any other medium" -Jake's friend I don't understand this quote.... It would be fine to make a movie of JFK's assasination, or a song or a painting, so if that's what he meant by 'medium' then I think he's very wrong. But if that's not what he meant then there's no other medium, I can think of, where you could make this interactive besides video games anyways....

My financial situation has turned out to be allot better then I had thought, I'm definitely going to place an order for this tonight.

Yeah, I was damn frustrated at first, especially on the dirt level, but I've had nothing better to do the past few days and I got pretty decent and gauging how much slippage I will incur at what speeds. A fairly steep learning curb, but once you start to get it down its wicked fun, it feels very raw and realistic. And I think I heard that in the full version you can strap a seatbelt on, or if I'm making that up, I'm sure they'll add that option in a patch.

I have to say, once you get good at this game, it's awesomely good. The amount of detail is amazing, I love how the A.I. is as aggressive and reckless as the me, not caring about getting smashed up, or smashing other people up. And on the dirt course (my favorite) I really feel like I'm digging into the mud when I peal out and around corners. And then the physics and damage modeling is fantastic. This is probably the most fun I've had with a driving game since NFS: High Stakes.

The physics are great, best I've seen in a game so far. Amazingly detailed, everything reacts realistically, especially all the bit and pieces of the car. Graphics are real good too. But yeah, the rag doll that jumps out of the car every time you hit something too hard seems unrealistic and over exaggerated. They really need to have an option to strap a seat belt on, because the novelty of flying out the window dies fast (like, before I even saw it). It's not in anyway offensive to me, just somewhat annoying. But overall a real fun game, I'll definitely consider ordering this puppy.

Sweetness. I should have this by morning. Meanwhile, those of you on broadband, please let me (and me alone) know what you think. (I don't quite have enough balls to call your green llama-dick. I fold.)

Hear that, Snubs, we're the general populous of the world! Awesome. By the way, Jaero, you made allot of good points, I just was dragging into the open a small inconsistency that jumped out at me. I don't really see, though, how your response was satirical or subtly sarcastic...but maybe my sense of humor is just too simple. (I'll see your Ben Stein and raise you a Mr. T: )

Sorry man, my bad.

We really need to start fining people for wasting court's time with frivolous (bullshit, I mean) lawsuits like this one.

Lindset: yep, but not in the U.S. I might make an order online if this gets good reviews. "Regardless, it's called the expression of opinion. This thing we're on right now, it's called the internet. Put two and two together. And shit. People are going to express their opinions whether or not you like them, so it's a bit futile (not to mention rude) to come in after the fact and say something to the effect of "chill out, your opinion is stupid"." -Jaero This seems a little hypocritical to me. What made Lindset's post into anything other them some guy expressing his opinion, just like you were? I think it's funny - I see it all the time - when some guy bashes what some other guy says on the internet, and then the other guy fires back saying something corny like, 'it's called an opinion, look it up.' Was the first guy, the guy who 'disagreed' with the other guy's opinion, stating a fact? Oh well, you get my point (or probably not).

I'd say the reasoning behind this method of scoring is pretty clear, which is, in certain games certain rating factors aren't as important as others. Like in this case, the reviewer felt 'Gameplay' and 'Lasting Appeal' were much more important then 'Graphics,' and that all these shouldn't be treated as equal factors in the overall score. Or, another example, a great linear story driven adventure game shouldn't get low overall marks because of little to no 'Lasting Appeal.' That's how I see it, anyways.