syntheticgerbil

YOU DON'T LIKE JUST EATING A BAG OF CHEESE?

You know, maybe it should have been a fox hound.

Because you can have a culture that is disinterested in creating any kind of art, but you can't have art without a culture. But yes, I do believe media is a teaching tool. It's such circular logic though because then how can you easily identify an anime game where you tear people's clothes off as hate speech and not an expression. I'm not really saying what I need to say correctly because I'm just fucking it up by muddying it up with the argument others are making and have made. Now I'm all confused. Sorry. But I saw your links with sexism studies, but the sample size of the first is 175 people and the second two I would have to buy to see. I don't feel like any kind of research has been done on a broad scale as violence in video games. I also just can't see why violence is to be separated from sexism as something to be influenced by media. You made the argument that violence is perpetuated (or at least accepted) by violence in media but others have said the opposite and the studies everyone cites says the opposite. It was consistently argued otherwise last year when all of the Sandy Hook stuff happened. This is still the problem I have with what was brought up on the podcast. Sexism and violence can't be linked as because the latter is an action. I just can't get behind that because I feel like both are actions.

As silly as that photograph mode was, it is not as terrible as it sounds. Not anything like Metal Gear Solid 4's nasty photograph easter egg. In VR Missions, it's just Naomi sitting at a desk and Mei Ling standing there. They aren't really doing anything sexy and are pretty low poly anyway. Considering they aren't bending over and crawling like MGS4 and are just sort of standing and sitting there with idle animations, the photograph mode in VR Missions/Integral comes off more like you're a lame ass fashion photographer in a sneaking suit. But otherwise, yeah Cine, I think he's always been sort of skeezy towards half of the female characters. However it never really seemed that prominent to me in MGS1-3. I will always maintain that looking at Meryl's butt is a funny little plot point rather than salacious, considering how it's framed and modeled. Also since I'm not trying to sour so much on this game at the moment, look at this! Big Boss has a wolf! Awwww!

Ah okay, sorry one more response. The amount of media one can consume now is ridiculous compared to art in the long past which was often times just religious symbols and books for most of the years. I can't imagine culture will every be trumped by the media in which a culture creates, should they even create media. Some cultures create almost nothing of artistic worth, some create billion dollar industries on it. I just don't think art alone will change anyone unless there are seeds planted in the culture to do so, but then what leads to that type of stylistic change other then a change in culture anyway? And also if media or art is an expression that can change minds, then it should lead that it can create harmful ideas and therefore needs censorship. I suppose I still maintain if I am to agree with what you guys are saying, which is a perfectly logical way of thinking, then I can't possibly separate the motivation for violence that media should have if it also has the same motivation for sexism. Yet studies have shown again and again that violent video games don't lead to violence (apparently, I don't know all of the studies, this is just what people say). Maybe some studies should be done on Japanese game players and the otakus with their hentai games? Seems like a prime place to start if we are to do any measuring. Otherwise to me this is all arguing the abstract.

Chili doesn't work that way. At least I think... I don't know if I could do it on spaghetti.

Not necessarily, while not produced here, there are many games in hentai dating sims available in Japan. Or even worse, Rapelay, should you be so inclined. That's the thing, I refuse to believe any of this is more than a product of our culture. The product of war and what you are speaking of dates thousands of years before our centuries old deluge of media we are all used to now. Blackface cartoons are a product of a country in flux after century or so before where the race was thought of as animals and enslaved. War, racism, and sexism are so intertwined in the history of humanity, that I prefer to see the changing of media to be more including and respectful to others as more of a document of our progress as a species. Just changing what the media contains will probably not solve much wrong with the world. I mean if we are saying all of this reinforces the attitude of the Gamer's Gate types, I doubt any availability of the content they desire is going to change who they are. But I think I'm just going to agree to disagree at this point.

But if you use that same argument against violence in games or media, you could say it acclimates everyone to a world where violence and murder exists and is valid. If you take out the factor that violence in media can lead to violence and instead just acclimates them, I think you'd see in general no one in the United States is okay with general violence or murder whatsoever. Especially with the outcry of all of this police brutality lately yet media has been more violent and gruesome than ever in the past decade. I just don't personally see how effects of violence in games is not supposed to correlate with sexism or racism in games just because violence is an action. Just a weird point was glossed over there. Sexism and racism are not just ways of thought, but are also definitely actions that can be carried out via shunning, exclusion, use of abusive language, theft, and violence. To me it seems like we are all talking about a cause and effect issue except we aren't talking about a cause and effect issue. I don't think I can personally compartmentalize that one deviant social behavior can be affected or reinforced by media but another cannnot.

I guess by these new guidelines the people that feel they were ripped off by John K.'s cartoon short that was never finished would have no recourse. He did post updates of a half finished cartoon. The animatic was finished in full. It's a shame, it looked good. What I wish Kickstarter would let you do is become a late backer no matter what and at least let you see all of the hidden updates (not necessarily put you into a rewards category).

Oooooo that reminds me! Does anyone know if any of the choices are from a Harvest Moon? I wonder how the other forum Woodfella goes to did. What was their score? Maybe we beat them and we can feel better about ourselves as a group!

Well those fetishistic games are going to exist forever and I would still argue that it caters to people who a predisposed to like that sort of thing. I personally don't think it's harmful for those type of games to exist, but I'm imagining certain anime games recently and anime itself where the fan service and sexism has gotten out of control it seems the last decade. So I have a similar problem with anime where it's just so dominant and bleeds into everything. Same with sexism in games for me. Same with violence in games. Like an ultraviolent game is fine sometimes and I enjoy that sort of thing in the right mood, but I also tend to not play that stuff personally. I'm extremely adverse to games where I run around in first person view looking at a fucking gun the whole time. Not only is it an incredibly boring way to interact, it's just an obnoxious and infantile way to see the world to me. That said it's fine for those games to exist because there's always going to be a market for that sort of thing and it's not necessarily bad but I would rather not have it be dominant. Like said a few times on the podcast about Bioshock Infinite, maybe their story would have been more engaging and effective if your whole nexus of interaction wasn't a gun. However, I wonder if people who played adventure games growing up tend to develop kleptomania... You never really know when you are going to need a fork or a police badge.

Like multiple cassettes that sync up? I know that's most likely not what you are saying but that would be pretty awesome.

I think there are no rules in Idle Banter, but I see gifs everywhere. If Sean Vanaman loves gifs, then it's probably allowed forever.

Not a gif but whatever, fighting mongoose!

I suppose I don't agree that sexism in games normalizes sexism for many. I think it's a problem because it's too prominent, but you have to think of all of the men who grew up with games employing these tropes and aren't sexist. I would make the case that these men were sexist before video games said so just as men were violence before video games said so. Just because a game asserts their worldview in either case doesn't mean it influences others to be that way. It's also pretty much impossible to test that a work of art or whatever changed someone to become a person who is toxic to society. I hate to do this, but since it's the most recent example I can think of, if you go back to Elliott Rodger, all of these claims were made that this guy became a killer because of his participation in online message boards and MRA articles, when his manifesto would suggest he was messed up way before any of that. Considering he's an exception pretty much confirms the same with video game violence on how some mass shooters love GTA but they are still exceptions to the point of a fraction of a percent. To me a lot of sexism in games is just because of laziness, that women are often hamfistedly used as a mechanic by a team of boys who aren't giving it much thought. This isn't to say that all of the tropes need to be employed less and more games that target both sexes or women only need to become more prominent, I just don't think it's as problematic as it has been made out to be in terms of how boys grow considering how Gamegate is a recent overwhelming thing probably in correlation with the increasing amount of women who play games, while you'd think decades of this stuff should lead to a nearly blanket spread of misogyny. Personally I think the amount of time these Gate assholes have on their hands says a lot about who they are. Either men who have nothing in life except a computer and a lot of young boys still in the public school system who lack worldview and have a lot of hormones with no fucking clue what long term impact what they doing or saying is. I think I pretty much agree with Baekgom. But I suppose it's similar take to all of that blabbing I was doing about racist cartoons earlier.

Yeah I think we are stuck . We made a 50. Shit.

This is what bothers me. I don't feel like this addition to the terms of service is necessary. If the creator doesn't deliver, tough luck in my opinion, it's a risk because in the end it's a donation. It's not a preorder system at all. People don't even have to offer the game for free as a reward, they could potentially just ask for money to complete the game and you just buy it later. Although that bullshit Penny Arcade Kickstarter would definitely not be allowed under these new terms. God that still pisses me off, maybe even more than potato salad. I suppose if they had posted play by play updates of them removing ads from their site they would be eligible though.

When I was talking about the name for jaw pain earlier today (TMJ), my wife had a really hard time following any of what I was saying. Turns out she thought I was talking about the Rastafarian "Jah" the whole time. WHAT THE HELL?!

Very happy for you Miffy! I'm so glad you got the job! Is a 5th grade to 8th(?) a normal thing in Canada? In fact that makes way more sense than 1st-5th, 6th-8th, and 9th-12th. I must have missed what happened with you Quak0r...

Hey does anyone have Fuse on PS3? If so do you want to play co-op with me through the game. It can be any difficulty I don't care, I just have to finish all of the levels. My PSN name is Syntheticgerbil, it's Syntheticgerbil everywhere. I imagine no one will respond to this thread.

Cool, sent you the invite! Well it's a fourplayer game as well, might be fun with even more people if anyone else happens to have picked this up in the sale. $5, wow.

Sounds like Pepsi Si. It's Pepsi, but it says, "Yes" in Spanish. They're gonna love this!

It's all still very much a treatment of Japanese people like they aren't human, the caricatures were just as much a part of that, and for whatever reason Asian stereotypes have been less taboo for a longer period of time in entertainment. Is there some information on why that would be the reason Warner Bros. banned the cartoon and not the constant blackface? It's pretty much the sole reason for the rest of the censored 11. I think Disney would be one of the most ideal examples of the type corporations where that sentiment is more than fine. To me, the theme parks are one of the veins that keep the multimedia behemoth going, which is no good. That said, I'm sure it's fun and well constructed. I went to Disney World as a kid, that's more than enough for me. I also had Astroworld, a shitty sub version of Disney Land with all Looney Tunes crap. I must have went multiple times a year especially when my friends got cars, but it was a stinking hellhole the few years before they closed it down. Good riddance.

That wouldn't make sense then because all of the Private Snafu cartoons have been readily released by Warner Brothers among multiple sets as well as Mr. Hook, which is even worse. Often times the Chinese or Japanese stereotypes have been ignored in the past and even were not part of the censored or cut stuff when Turner was rotating them on regular TV. I'd bet even Tiny Toons has some of those types of jokes.

I think in the end there's going to be no right way to present old cartoons with racism, just the same with the amount of sexism they tend to have (Hey there Tex Avery!). Like Jake brought up, the company would have to make a profit to justify the restoration, but what's interesting is that the "Censored 11" by Warner Bros. have been restored but are still to never be released. Perhaps they were planning on a release at some point, but I guess these cartoons are so racist there might still be an outcry. I've seen a few, I wouldn't say they are any more or less racist than many of the ones already released on the Looney Tunes Golden Collections, just that they give the blackface characters either more screentime or they are the main characters. Two that I really like despite all of the blackface and stereotypes are the Bob Clampett ones, Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs and Tin Pan Alley Cats. It probably doesn't make much of a difference, but Clampett was a huge jazz fan and apparently liked hanging out around the jazz club culture at the time. I think what you get is a strange combination of a cartoonist only knowing how to show everything in exaggeration for the sake of a gag, just like how every celebrity is depicted in a Warner Bros. cartoon, but also someone who loves the subject and wants to have fun with the music they listen to. Most Hollywood movies and cartoons from the first 40-50 years of our film history is just going to have objectionable material, whether it's meant to be harmful or not. Sometimes it's preserved for historical reasons like Birth of a Nation, or sometimes because it's still entertaining, like Little Rascals or Our Gang. Either way, when this stuff is released on DVD, you can make the argument that the publishing company is perpetuating racism by selling it as a product or if it's in a museum you could say that they are giving these pieces of media value that they otherwise should not be allowed to have by putting them on a pedestal. Not everyone was as progressive as Charlie Chaplin who refused to do any blackface gags in his film because he didn't find them funny. But the guy also never depicted or hired black people in his films either. But in the end, I don't think there's any harm in releasing any of this stuff on DVD, because it's all old. No one except an aficionado buys these old cartoons and both Disney and Warner Bros. have gone to lengths already to offer different sets with different packaging styles for parents who want to expose their kids to these old cartoons. I think even if you left out the disclaimer recordings, it wouldn't matter because the people who buy the big boxsets know what they are getting into. With the amount of cartoons these days that are available on DVD and TV, I think you'd be hard pressed to get views from kids or passive watchers affirming their racial and sexist beliefs. I think maybe my generation was the last to experience these old cartoons on rotation on TV networks. By then a lot of stuff had already been clipped or censored by Ted Turner's company, who unfortunately also butchered them by having the black and white ones traced, frames ignored, and colored badly in Korea. Ho hum, the animation world... My wife's younger sister (younger by 12 years) had no idea who Droopy is when seeing I had the new set. I was kind of shocked Droopy is no longer on TV as I think Dixieland Droopy is a cartoon everyone should see. But really, there's newer stuff with more time slots to fill. The fact that these cartoons have lasted so long with audience over the decades really is a testament to the power of animation over a lot of older silent films and monster movies which haven't been as preserved or even reappeared on TV as much if at all.