ThunderPeel2001

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MFn8L9tIrg

A couple of things: Yep, you're right, 18 was a random number I plucked out of the air. But never the less, we're talking about Darwinism here. The survival of the fittest (or most able to adapt). The selfish gene inside us wants to survive, and in caveman/cavewoman times their would surely be a much greater chance of survival if there was someone else to help take care of the offspring... Someone who perhaps cares about it as much as the mother? Sex with a guy would result in an offspring that would mean years of dedication... Bummer! Especially if the caveguy isn't going to be around. You can certainly see why a woman would be incredibly judicious about her choice of partners in such a situation... Even if she wanted sex really, really badly. There's a whole other part of this, too: Newborn babies are designed (by nature) to resemble their father. And parents of the mother are programmed to say things backing this up, to the father ("Oh look! She's got her father's eyes!"). The insane rage that men can find themselves in if they learn they've been cheated on is presumed to be connected to this, too: Their selfish gene doesn't want to help raise a selfish gene that isn't theirs, so the male reaction is a throwback to times before contraception. There's some great lectures about this whole thing I listened to several years ago, but sadly I can't find the exact ones. Still some great stuff to be found here, though: http://webcast.berkeley.edu I totally agree. I'm definitely NOT arguing that anyone who falls outside of "the norm" (whatever that may be) is a freak or wrong or bad. And, of course, there's weird societal issues/double standards regarding promiscuous women and promiscuous men. That's not cool in my books. I'm just talking about The Science™.

Praise be!

That's a fair point (although I'm pretty sure the Internet wasn't an issue in 1982). What about the other part of the article? Or the common argument that a human female would have to raise a child for 18 years, and so it would make sense, genetically speaking, for them to choose a partner that would help with that process? It would surely increase the gene's chance of survival if the mother chose wisely with regards to a provider? Of course, I believe humans are nothing if not adaptable, so men and women may well have changed since our beginnings. But does the average woman really want 60 sexual partners in their lifetime? As a guy, that much meaningless, no strings attached, sex sounds appealing. I'm not sure I know many women who feel the same.

??? Clearly the problem with this debate was my assumption you were arguing in English.

Well, apparently it's a big deal to some people. I've no idea why.

I believe that the Zune 30 shits all over the iPod 5G.

What about the infamous 1982 campus study? http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/insight/201009/how-college-students-respond-being-propositioned-sex

I have to ask, just who exactly are you arguing with? I agree with your statement, with the only caveat that the press turned against it before it was given a chance to live. It was at worst on par with the iPod, but the press treated it as if it was significantly inferior. It wasn't. I have no argument with the idea that some of the public didn't bite because it wasn't an obvious improvement over the iPod, but I don't see how you can claim with any authority that the poor press reviews didn't also affect things. What proof do you have of that?

As I keep repeating, I actually held them in my hands and compared them for myself. I know that doesn't seem to count for anything here, as everyone wants to just go to Wikipedia and argue, but for one final time: The iPod 5G 30GB was 0.43 inches Don't believe me? How about Apple? Will you believe them? So the difference is actually 0.15 inches... As I believe I've stated one or two times before. The percentage difference is, of course, utterly redundant. Why? Because it's entirely down to what's reasonable or not reasonable to place in your pocket/hold in your hand.

Your pocket is immune to "industrial design".

Thanks, toblix! We're still waiting to hear your association with this game. I assume you're not SOS?

I guess I'm just waiting until it's done now.

Firstly, as I said, the photograph is not an accurate portrayal of real life (it's distorted). Here's an image that shows far more accurately the differences in sizes (yes, SiN, this IS a 30GB 5G iPod -- the curved edges and reflective surfaces help hide its true dimensions in photographs, but not in real life). (Also, I made mistake before, I said the Zune screen was 20% bigger, when actually it's 44% bigger. Math fail.) Secondly, Erkki, by my definition then, you would NOT be an idiot... (perhaps you should read more carefully what I wrote).

I wish I could be good at TF2... but everytime I've played it I just get my ass handed to me, over and over again.

Well I don't want to be left out

Ugh... that's not a fair comparison screenshot. As someone who, you know, compared them IN REAL LIFE, I can attest that it made little or no difference. Once again. 0.15 of an inch! Aka 0.38cm! If anyone used that as a buying decision, they'd be a complete idiot. Oh man. That speaks volumes. I don't even know what we're talking about anymore. I think all the points have been made, and needless to say, I disagree. So, agree to disagree?

Anyhoo, I've done a piss poor job of debating like a gent. That's what you get for trying to quickly spew out replies while in work, and not properly engaging with what's being said. How many times must I learn this lesson? Apologies SiN.

Yes, you're right, but it's not so much as tech journalists "betting on the wrong horse" (as SiN put it), it's about them having a BIAS. That's something different (and that's what I linked to). This discussion has gotten pretty silly now, because the only way to take it forward is to start debating on the meaning of the phrase "shitting all over it". That's pretty absurd. SiN's argument about the Zune "optimising for the wrong thing" is also pretty silly: It was up against the "iPod Video"... that's how Apple was selling the 5G iPod. The video part was supposed to be a reason to upgrade from your previous model. And even if that wasn't the case, the bigger screen of the Zune did nothing to damage the Zune's ability to play music. Nor did the tiny bit of extra weight, or a tiny bit bigger case. The Zune was better than the iPod, and the Zune Software is still is better than iTunes (much to my annoyance)... It doesn't matter by how much. This was never a discussion as to the reason why the Zune failed, this was started when SiN made some silly made-up statements about the Zune, and then insisted there was never any media bias against it. SiN, you may well be right about why the Zune failed, but the media reaction was unbalanced and did nothing to help. To anyone jumping into the MP3 player arena, the Zune was a very viable option, but you wouldn't know that from the press's reaction.

Sorry, I know it was a bit harsh, it's just very frustrating to have someone ignore what you write and essentially make the argument, "the Zune was worse than the iPod Video on release because it was 0.15 an inch thicker", and that the Zune was treated fairly in the press, when it wasn't. *sigh* Here's an example of newspapers giving up on the Zune before it was even alive: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2006/nov/16/guardianweeklytechnologysection2 http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/09/technology/09pogue.html (read until the end) (I bet these same writers didn't write off the iPad 3 despite the fact it was larger and heavier than the iPad 2.) Anyways, apologies, SiN. Bad form on my part. I could write more reasons why you're wrong, but I feel like you've already made up your mind based on what you want to believe, rather than actually listen to someone who was actually there, and who watched it all unfold with keen interest. As for Apple bias in the press, consider the following: http://www.reuters.c...E84L17P20120522 Dell say that their shares came in slightly lower than predicted, but still on an upward trajectory. The reason: The European market. And yet twice in the article the journalist advertises the iPad, despite the fact that the Dell interviewee made no mention of the product. WTH? And I'd argue things are much better than they used to be. Back when the Zune was released, it was FAR worse.

Yep, exactly. Sorry SiN but you're talking out of your ass.

I've done everything you commanded so far... all against my will.

Wow. That looks... generic.

You have exactly ten seconds to change that look of disgusting pity into one of enormous respect… one...two... Oh, forget it.

Sold! Thanks very much for posting that!