Mentalgongfu

@Kanen 1) Audrey in a coma is definitely plausible, if not likely; but like you, I'm not a fan of the idea. 2) I don't think Sonny Jim is Bad Coop's child because there haven't been any clues in the show to indicate that is even a possibility. On top of that, I think DougieCoop would have sensed something, or we would have seen Sonny Jim being evil at some point; instead he seems to have a good heart. Sonny Jim's parentage is an interesting question, though I doubt we'll get a clear answer. Is he the child of TulpaDougie (Can a Tulpa have a child?), or was there a real Dougie Jones who fathered him and was then disappeared by BadCoop? 3) Diane in the sheriff's station is still a wide-open question as far as I'm concerned, so could be Candie. Could be Naido. Could be something else.

I don't know that it helps to think too deeply about how Dougie would fit specifically into any particular religious cosmology, and I'm not specifically familiar with the idea of a "Sak Yant tattoo," but since we're already there (understandably, for sure) -- to your point about spiritual types withdrawing to seek an epiphany and @jentownsend 's comment about the buddha-nature, in the particular example of Dougie, I would consider him in this context not as a seeker having withdrawn to search, and more as someone already enlightened to the point of living the experience in each moment, without effort, rather than meditating on it or seeking. For the same reason Jesus in the Christian tradition often spoke in parables, some of the most revered teachers in the Eastern religions often spoke obscurely - not just because such vagueness could provide a gateway, but also because the knowledge they had was simply not capable of being put in words. Such an idea could certainly parallel with Dougie's mimicry and lack of deliberate speech. I am no expert either, but I am prone to think of the Zen koans that seek to confuse the mind so as to stop thought entirely, or the Taoist saying that the Tao is an empty vessel (as a vessel that is already full is of no use). Not that he was attempting to teach - simply that he was just being. Regarding The Return in particular, this train of thought makes me wonder if the scenes we have in the first Parts with Dougie and the Giant/Fireman are actually chronologically placed post fork-in-light-socket and immediately before Cooper-awakes-from-coma, especially given the "is this future or is this past?" line. Granted, time in the Lodges seems a bit wibbly-wobbly, if it exists at all, which may make putting things chronologically a self-defeating endeavor, but I do think that particular line was meant more for the audience than for Dougie/Dale.

I think it makes a lot of sense, especially given Lynch's interest in Tibetan Buddhism and the way some of those ideas have been incorporated into the series, both in The Return and in the original seasons.

It has been a while since I watched FWWM, but I believe Leland tells Laura, "I always thought you knew it was me." I think Jake and Chris have mentioned this also. It seems to indicate some level of guilt and complicity of his own. Granted, taken that way, it does contradict the Leland confession scene in Season Two in some ways, but only if you view it as a black-and-white choice of Leland being passive and controlled entirely by Bob or as acting on his own. I think it is more of a gray area, where he was influenced by Bob to committ his crimes but wasn't completely passive. It could also boil down to Lynch just shifting the backstory for the film, where he had complete control, versus the TV version as a collaboration, or just that ABC might not have wanted the darker version of Leland having agency in his daughter's abuse. Primetime network TV in 91/92 was cetainly not keen to touch the idea of familial sexual abuse, so maybe that was just as far as they would let Lynch push it (which was still pretty far for that time). I personally prefer to reconcile the two portrayals to the gray area rather than claim one is right and the other wrong, but I don't think Lynch or Frost have commented explicitly on it outside of the creative works. Bob being "the evil that men do," does seem to get at this idea, however, and there may be some illuminating stuff in Frost's books but I have not read them.

Agree to disagree. Maybe you have a better stream or a better screen than I, but all I see is the blob sticking halfway out of BadCoop's chest at one point, and never actually separated from his body. And BadCoop never does anything to indicate Bob is no longer with him, after specifically noting he was still with him in the prison. Nor do we have any knowledge from the show as to why Bob would be removed, why BadCoop getting shot would cause it to happen, or where he would go after. The closest thing we have is a ceiling fan image at the Palmers and something inside her, which is not like any Bob moment elsewhere in the current or two prior sessons. To claim the show "isn't that obtuse" when describing one of the strangest scenes of The Return strikes me as reaching a bit. Like I said, you may well be right in your conclusion, but I don't think it's clear in any way.

Good thoughts Great Went. I don't think Richard being the child of Audrey and BadCoop was part of any master plan. It's not even specifically clear that Audrey was physically raped in or out of a coma, although I'm well aware of the argument that BadCoop having sex with her under misleading circumstances could be considered a form of sexual abuse. And a rape does seem the most obvious explanation. That whole line of discussion is extremely sensitive, for obvious reasons. I don't personally agree with the assessment that BadCoop being a sexual predator is somehow a cop-out in The Return given Bob's nature in the original two seasons, but I understand why people are uncomfortable what the portrayal of what he did to Diane and Audrey I do wonder what BadCoop would have done if Richard hadn't shown up when he did outside the convenience store, and whether he would have found someone else to test the rock location or some other way. I was surprised we didn't get any scenes of his conversation with Richard in the truck on the way there. His last words to Richard in Part 15 were "Get in the truck; we'll talk on the way." Maybe we'll get some kind of flashback in the final parts, but I kind of doubt it. I think BadCoop's motivation is definitely avoiding re-entry to the Red Room, as you say, but he might also desire to storm the White Lodge. He has already effectively avoiding going back to the Red Room, but to ensure he stays out Cooper has to die. Bad Coop has been letting his minions work on that part of the plan while he has been doing other things, so I think it's fair to believe he has some other goal - otherwise, he could have just gone to Vegas to take care of GoodCoop himself. In part I or II, The Giant/Fireman tells Coop "They are in our house now. All cannot be said aloud now," so I think someone or something is infiltrating the White Lodge to storm the castle, as it were, but not sure if that means Bob/BadCoop or some other entity, like The Experiment/Mother and/or whatever is in Sarah Palmer. By the by, I'm still not convinced Bob was removed from BadCoop during that scene in Part 8. I re-watched it the other day, and it seems to me more like the Woodsmen were doing Black Lodge first-aid on him rather than removing Bob. Obviously, I could be wrong, but that's a major assumption most people are making that I just don't think is clear at this point.

So there are at least 3 current Diane theories I have read now: 1) Naido is Diane 2) Candie is Diane 3) Lucy is Diane. I think 3 is highly unlikely. I'm ambivalent on 1 & 2 since they are based on anagram/wordplay and very little else in the way of clues. Lucy is in the sheriff's station, but she is a character we have known since the original, and though she and Andy have their own level of oddities, I don't think there's any reason to think she would suddenly become or be revealed to be another person. Candie is on the way to the sheriff's station, so she presumably will be in there. Not sure what else would argue in favor of it, other than her being a little weird and spacey, like Lucy. Naido is indeed also in the sheriff's station, and she is important and must be protected, as Andy told us, so that is a point in favor. I'm not sure her appearance in the purple world early in the series jives with the idea she's Diane, but I think this is more likely than the other options above. And of course, there is always Door number 4) Someone else is Diane or Diane is in the sheriff's station in some other form - spiritually, metaphysically or in a Josie-is-the-doorknob sort of way.

I mean, he is an FBI agent. Non-violence isn't always an option. Even the Dalai Llama has his limits:

I have always taken the "How's Annie?" scene in the bathtroom as Cooper's doppleganger/Bob getting a big laugh at how well he was able to fake the appearance of real concern when he asked the same question to Truman and the Doc moments earlier. Not as an indication of any specific intent.

In Season 2 when Coop interviews Mike, Mike says that he took off his arm but remained close to the vessel of Phillip Gerard for "one single purpose," that being to stop Bob. That of course doesn't answer all the questions, but at least goes to Mike's motivations. As for Bob being excised from Mr. C., it's important to remember that isn't actually clear, even though it's the common conclusion based on the scene from Part 8 when the Woodsmen appear after Ray shoots Coop. I'm not so sure Bob isn't still in there. I lean toward the idea the Woodsmen were just doing some kind of Block Lodge first aid on Mr. C rather than removing Bob. After all, Bob needs a vessel too, and I doubt he could find a better one than Cooper's evil twin. I know the theory that Bob is now in Sarah Palmer is popular too, but I think she's got something different inside her.

Gee, no surprise someone with such a thoughtful and insightful moniker has contributed such constructive posts since joining the forum moments ago. Sheesh. 1) Diane revealing she was raped was NOT treated casually in that scene, whatever you think of Lynch's career. 2) You can argue against the above, and that is all well and good and fair game, even though I think it's dumb. But your second post is just called "being an asshole." Discuss, argue, whatever, but don't start the insult train moving full speed ahead because you apparently detest Lynch and anyone who enjoys or appreciates his work. Derailing with insults is not cool. It has never been cool.

Maybe some of them? But a lot of the Roadhouse scenes tie into what we take in the show to be reality, like our green-gloved friend winding up in jail. And Billy's existence. Not to mention James' perpetual coolness.

Yes, great episode. I appreciated Dale's return all the more for the long wait. And we wouldn't have had all this wonderful adventure if he had come back in the beginning. I like the idea of Naido being the real Diane, but I'm not sure how the mechanics would work. Maybe her time in the Other Place has changed her appearance? "Naido" backwards is O dian. May mean nothing. I don't know about her being Judy too, however. 3 names seems a little much. More random first thoughts: Still wondering what to make of the 1 remaining set of coordinates DoppleCoop had, plus the one not-Diane sent right before she tried to shoot the Blue Rose team. The Mitchums ARE gangsters with hearts of gold. Dale was drinking coffee in the limo, without much ceremony. Didn't even say "damn fine." Maybe it just wasn't that good. I predict before the finale ends he will devour some of Norma's cherry pie with much fanfare. We didn't get to see the message Dale left for Gordon Cole... presumably sending him to Twin Peaks? Richard's death was unsurprising after DoppleCoop called him "bright," but I kind of feel he deserved even worse. Maybe not... He belongs on the group W bench down in Whitehall Street at least with Arlo and all the other mean, nasty, ugly-looking mother-rapers and father-stabbers. What about Becky, after Steven's rant last week? How's Becky? How's Becky?

When Audrey walked into the Roadhouse, I yelled at my TV "Eat that, Internet! It's not a coma!" Then the MC introduced "Audrey's dance," someone smashed Barney with a bottle, and Audrey screamed at her husband to get her out of there and flashed to a mirror in a white room.... so, I don't know if anyone has suggested this yet, but I'm starting to think she might be in a coma The seed Dale asked for is probably related to him making a replacement Dougie. And it seems tragic for Janey and Sonny Jim to lose the DaleDougie, but it occurs to me the original was probably a seed from bad Coop, but the replacement would be from good Coop. So perhaps a better version than the philandering, gambling Dougie whom Dale replaced.

Hello, Audrey, put your coat on! Hello, Audrey, put your coat on! Hello, Audrey, put your coat on!

It's true that it is left vague. I just can't get on board with the Audrey-in-a-coma scenario. It seems too derivative for this season to me. And most of the arguments for the theory point to a coma as the "only explanation" all the weirdness in her (surprisingly) few scenes, as if weirdness and oddities weren't the backdrop of nearly everything in Twin Peaks. Obviously, I may have to eat my words depending on what reveal may be coming in the remaining 3 hours, but I continue to think there is some other explanation, though I don't have a great alternative to offer. To argue against myself for a moment, there are a lot of references to dreams, including the actual episode title last week. Even though I think some of the titles are just throwaways to appease Showtime so they have something to list, I can't dismiss Gordon Cole's dream in which he gets a message from Monica Belluci about dreams and dreamers. Anything coming from Gordon at this point is important unless it's just a joke that doesn't translate into French. So maybe Audrey is the dreamer. Or one of them. But I will be beyond disappointed if the big conclusion is something akin to the Wizard of Oz "it was just a dream" ending. Lynch would have to do something amazing with it to make it at all satisfying to me at least. I don't think that's what we're going to get, but there are enough signs pointing that way I'm actually a little worried. Then again, I never really did figure out Lost Highway, so either way, I expect the conclusion of Lynch's 18-hour Twin Peaks movie will leave plenty of room for rewatches and interpretations.

I suppose that would explain. Even the mirror seems like an odd choice to me, but I'm doubting it means anything important.

Random observation from a comment on youtube: The late Mr. Todd has no legs. Must be intended, too. Most scenes with him are closer in, with the desk hiding it, but there are a couple shots from farther away in prior episodes that show the same thing. Edit: Or maybe not. Because we see him walk around in Part 6 when he gets the computer message that turns red.

So I hope this is cool to share - a sort of synthesis I wrote about my ideas on Twin Peaks and the connection between Project Blue Book and the Blue Rose task force just got posted at a friend's site. It is essentially a collection of my thoughts on the relation between Lodge entities, tulpas and "aliens" (though not in the pop-culture sense of extraterrestrials), and includes a lot of textual references to all three seasons of the show as well as some outside sources on owls, UFOs, and abduction events. It is lore-heavy, since that is what interests me most. I know the deep, dark depths of the lore is not everyone's preferred cup of coffee, but even those who prefer a little cream and sugar in their cup of joe might appreciate some of the thoughts. It relies specifically on the show and doesn't refer to anything in Frost's books alone, as I personally find the imagery Lynch associates with the ideas to be more powerful than any tome of Secret History. This is the link. If for some reason posting such outside links is not considered appropriate, @Jake @Chris, just let me know and I will remove. Otherwise, I hope you might enjoy.

@Marius Certainly the lines you cite are important, if for no other reason than they are part of the last thing Margaret ever says, or will say, to Hawk. That, in addition to the "face to face" part. At the least, it indicates they have communicated in person in the relatively recent past, even though all we've seen in The Return is the phone calls. I don't recall anything that seems relevant from Season 2, and my last rewatch was just as the new season was starting, but it's definitely possible there's something I'm forgetting or that just didn't seem important at the time. To your first comment - it is a great catch - but again, I can't take credit. All the observations I mentioned back on page 3 of this thread should be credited elsewhere. All I did was screenshot the map and quote and summarize some dialogue from Twin Peaks that supports what the Almost Cancelled guys said in their youtube video. And for the record, I do feel a little weird giving props to someone else at a forum run by Jake and Chris of Idle Thumbs, but they're still my favorite Twin Peaks podcast, and the only related discussion board I take part in other than sometimes commenting at AV Club, which will cease to exist as of sometime this morning when it becomes a Kinja site. And besides, I figure TP is really all one big community, so as long as we do give credit where it's due, I don't see the harm in sharing info from other superfans when they find something that intrigues me as much as this does.

Credit for the following observations to the guys over at Almost Cancelled on MIld Fuzz TV, and which I just confirmed with my own two earballs. I certainly didn't catch it on my own, as much as I would have liked to. When Lucy transfers Margaret Lanterman's final call to Hawk, she tells him it is on Line One. She does not say, for perhaps the first and only time in the show's history, that Line One is the one that is flashing. An omen? Margaret's first words to Hawk, "I'm dying." Margaret says to Hawk before the conversation ends and she says her final good night, "Watch. Watch for that one - the one I told you about, the one under the moon on Blue Pine Mountain." In part 11, when Hawk shows his ancient but always current map to Truman, he points in the following picture to Blue Pine Mountain, "where Maj. Briggs station was," and also "a very revered, sacred site." It's where Hawk thinks they will go (and apparently do, in Part 14) based on Briggs hidden directions. Look at the image - what is under the moon? The same figure on the playing card Dark Coop has, the figure that Truman notes was on the hidden message from Brigss, and which Hawk tells Truman when he asks about it, "Frank, You don't ever want to know about that." Hmmm... I started to think "that one" might be Naido, but then I remembered Briggs' message told them to go to that same location the following day, 10/2, at the same time, 2:53, when they will surely encounter .... something.

@Arianna Thinking about your question, it occurs to me there are several sets of coordinates, and we don't for sure know which are which. The apparent timeline jumps make things a little more cumbersome to dissect. The coordinates Diane sees are apparently those to Twin Peaks, since we also see her look them up. I had presumed that means they were not altered, although I don't believe we have any evidence to prove it, since Albert theoretically could still have altered the original photo to insert Twin Peaks coordinates for whatever unknown reason. I would lean toward not, but I wouldn't say for sure. I don't think we ever actually see Diane text those coordinates to anyone, but I could be forgetting. I haven't confirmed myself since I never wrote them down, but I'll assume the ones Jeffries gives are the same she sees. In any case, the coordinates on Ruth Davenport's arm are also the ones Brigg's was apparently looking for, and which Hastings and Ruth brought to him. And, assuming they weren't altered, are also the ones to Twin Peaks. But like the question of why Dark Coop would need them, we also have to ask why Briggs would need them, since he would also presumably know where the Glastonbury Grove portal is (see below). Then we have the coordinates Dark Coop was searching for and eventually got from Ray. I had thought those were the coordinates to The Dutchman's, but in hindsight, Dark Coop tells Ray he "knows where it is," which leads me to believe the numbers Ray gave him were for something else. That could be the Twin Peaks coordinates, or something else again. Then we have the location of the zone. SInce Hastings takes the FBI there himself before his head gets popped, maybe those coordinates don't matter. It is in South Dakota, and since things are presumably heading to Washington, maybe it's irrelevant. But it is another portal location, and apparently the place where Hastings entered the portal to meet Briggs We also have the location in the forest that Hawk, Andy and Truman venture to. Although the description Briggs gave them in his message was in relation to Jack Rabbit's Palace, rather than coordinates, it could be one of the locations referenced above or a separate place where such portals exist. It doesn't make sense that this is the same place Briggs was looking for from Hastings, since he clearly knows where it is well enough to direct others to it. Honestly, the more I think about it, the more confusing all of it is. Every time I feel I start to grasp the distinctions, I recall something else that raises a question. Perhaps there are multiple portals in the Twin Peaks area, not just Glastonbury Grove? That would at least answer part of it. I can't wait for the final Parts so we can begin further dissecting things and making sense, if any can be made, of all these intricate details. If nothing else, Lynch sure knows how to develop a sense of mystery and intrigue through the information he presents and that which he doesn't.

Although it's not entirely clear, I took it as Dark Coop sending the message Diane received several episodes ago, confirming she's in contact with him, and as another confirmation of the non-linear storytelling. Assuming things are simply being told in non-linear fashion (rather than some other in-world time phenomena, a la "is this future or is it past?), it would be interesting to see someone line up the timeline clues and where they would place the sequence of the narrative pieces we have seen.

FYI, they previously dedicated the premier of The Return to the memory of Catherine Coulson and Frank Silva. I believe the dedication specifically to her character in Part 15 is due to the inspiration it provided for Twin Peaks as a whole. A Variety article after Coulson's death notes: Coulson worked with Lynch as assistant director on his 1977 debut feature “Eraserhead,” where they began discussing the idea of a woman who carried around a log. She described her Margaret Lanterman character as the “only normal person on the show,” but qualified that she’s “had some trauma and bonded with this Ponderosa pine.”

Naw, not everyone in Twin Peaks is a horrible person.