• Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Nordelnob

  1. Yeah, I was also reminded of this scene in the ending of 18. Watching it now, it feels REALLY similar.
  2. Oh god damn it. I kind of love this. I always thought the dopples were just some inherent shadow form that everyone has though. I guess that could be wrong though.
  3. Happy Coop! Or as I like to call him Dougie 2.0 He seems to be the part of Cooper that is his wonder and almost childlike curiosity about everything around him. The side of Cooper who asked Truman about the trees in the first episode.
  4. I wouldn't dismiss it so fast. I've gotten the same or a very similar feeling. This entire season seems to have been about multiple or alternate realities/dimensions/planes of existence. And there seem to be little hints. Particularly whenever two shots dissolve and overlap and separate from each other (this happens quite often when there is some otherworldly force nearby or important cosmic events, etc.., for instance when Cooper asked Freddy if he was Freddy). When the minute hand on the clock in the Sheriff's station went both backwards and forwards and they did that dissolve where both shots are on top of each other. It seems to imply that the two realities that are supposed to by one are diverging. The literal world where things runs forwards, and the dream world where at least in the lodge, things seem to run backwards. And there have been a couple that I've noticed with Cooper. I doesn't quite wash literally. But thematically it kind of makes sense.
  5. "Laura is the key to all this, if we get Laura working. 'Cause she's a funnier character than we've ever had..." -David Lynch
  6. Yeah, she was wearing some pretty baggy clothes which probably did a descent job of covering up the weight. And they digitally de-aged her face I'm guessing. De-aging has come a long way since X-men 3 LOL. The fact that it's a dark scene probably goes a long way in making it pretty seamless as well. and things like keeping her out of focus (and the fact the scene was shot mostly in black and white). It all cut together pretty seamlessly I thought. I wasn't exactly looking for seams or anything though.
  7. I was just watching the episode again and something about the dead man caught my attention. The bullet wound seems to angle upwards, which means it may possibly be a suicide. I just thought that was strange because there has been speculation about how Becky was sort of a stand in or a "reincarnation" for Laura. And Steven shot himself. Or maybe it's nothing. It's probably nothing. Also, they use the same "Lost Highway" Mr. C driving at night shot when "real" Cooper is driving. Almost like they are hitting us over the head with the fact that Bad Coop is now a part of Cooper. Well, that and all of the other clues. His behavior. The ruthless way he dispatched those guys in the diner. That sex scene. But the theory about Cooper giving up his innocent, chipper side when he created Dougie 2.0 seems just as plausible to me. I really want to believe that these are all meaningful clues, and that it's all going to build to something, hopefully we get another season.
  8. I gotcha. I may have phrased that poorly. I suppose what feeling people take away from it is going to vary a lot more than your average TV show. This season was certainly not a troll. David Lynch is just a weird guy. A very, very weird guy. I have thoroughly enjoyed The Return. I'm posting on this forum after all. I'm engaged and interested in these characters. The way I feel about the finale, I have felt several times about other moments/episodes this season. And some of them my feelings have changed. And of course some of them haven't. If I can say anything about it though, almost every scene has been good, even if some of them didn't seem to serve much of a purpose to the overall story, or character development. That David Lynch knows how to put together a good scene, whether it's comedic or horrific. And he knows how to create a compelling mystery. Paying them off or resolving them is another question! Lynch seems to be allergic to that!
  9. I didn't notice that, but I was pretty impressed by all of the other stuff. I was trying to figure out how they did it. It seemed like they either had a bunch of stuff that they filmed and never used with Laura, or maybe they did a face switch on another actress? I'm not sure.
  10. True. But this doesn't just negate objective reality. There is such a thing as bad writing (and I'm not saying this is necessarily bad writing, I'm just giving an example) and it's a completely valid thing to criticize or discuss that type of thing. That's pretty much what we do here on this forum. When someone criticizes art, just saying "well, art is subjective" is a bit of a non starter. Kind of shuts down the conversation. When a painter uses the color red, that's an objective fact. When a film maker uses spooky music for example to create an atmosphere, whether he's subverting expectations or playing to them, there's an established "flavor" or "palette" that is being used.
  11. Whether you can find a way to make the events that happened hopeful in some way is one thing. But the entire tone of the that last episode was deliberately empty and maybe there's a better adjective... down, depressing. Coop is now no longer the happy vibrant person he was. Diane is having rape trauma and leaves him. We get these long lingering, eerie shots that seem to be be conjuring a sense of dread. The whole last episode felt like a horror movie. I can't believe this is even being disputed. (granted a lot of the season has felt like that. But it has had it's more hopeful moments.) Mind you, I'm not making any judgements as to whether any of that was a good way to do it, or a bad way to do it. I'm honestly still processing it. If that's the last Twin Peaks we ever get, then much like the S2 finale, I think at the very least there will be a lot to talk about. But I am still just curious about why they made that choice. In the case of S2 they were clearly setting up the next season. But I think they knew this could be it, and they chose to end it on a downer (particularly tonally, but story-wise I think you can find things to be down or feel empty about too), while deliberately dropping almost every important plot thread that they've set up for 17 episodes. Like I said I'm still processing it, but it is an interesting choice (to say the least!)
  12. I wouldn't exactly consider myself one of jaded or disappointed people really. This empty feeling that I'm left with is 100% the intent of the finale. And I knew it could likely end with another cliffhanger or at least a lot of unanswered questions. But I am curious as to why Lynch left it on such a sour, hopeless, and almost nihilistic (and in some ways solipsistic) note. Especially considering it would likely be the last episode ever.
  13. Equally likely. I find myself a bit frustrated in general with this finale, and I'm sure in some way that's part of the point.. I'm just kind of a little bit.. bummed. I enjoyed the hell out of this season, including the finale. But the way it ended feels so empty, and devoid of any meaning. I'm sure that's 100% by design. I'm just not sure I understand why. I realize Twin Peaks isn't always a feel good romp. But in the past it did tackle MEANINGFUL issues/themes/moods, and could often be very hopeful. Things like Harry and Cooper's friendship, and Cooper's unstoppable drive to do good. Redemption of characters like Bobby Briggs. And just about everything Major Briggs ever said was uplifting or enlightening in some way. We haven't had much of that this season. I was really expecting the finale to drive some of that stuff home. But instead we are left with a sense of dread and despair. And the world is now just an ugly, grey place. I'm trying to figure out why I am surprised by this, given the way the original was left. But I always attributed that to the show being cancelled before it could resolve the cliffhanger. Not a deliberate attempt to leave a sour taste.
  14. This seems likely. Diane is traumatized for life. As much as she completely LOVES Cooper with all of her heart, having sex with someone who looks identical to your rapist is probably not the best thing to do.
  15. I think this actually supports my point even more. Leland was doomed from the beginning. He never even had a chance of resisting BOB since he was taken over so early in life when he was so vulnerable. To me, that kind of implies that he was tainted by BOB's influence and it had many many years to influence him. And yet despite that, they go out of their way in both show and FWWM to show how he was a good father and generally a gpod person. Laura was, as far as we know, already basically grown by the time BOB began to feed on her darker urges. Imagine being a child and being confronted with this god like entity of BOB. How can a child even be expected to comprehend let alone resist such a powerful force. He was flawed, yes. He was a bit of a slippery lawyer type who worked with people who weren't exactly Ghandi but deep down he had a "heart of gold".
  16. If Leland would have raped Laura anyways without being possessed by BOB, then I just don't see the point of BOB in the first place. I get that there are metaphorical things to consider, and the point is we all have darkness.. But is doesn't mean you are bad just because you are human with a dark side.. we all have darkness in us... And the issue isn't purely black and white. But BOB is a part of the story, and it has to mean something. Yes the real Leland would sometimes push his way to the surface, but he wasn't the purpotrator, Bob was. Or at least, the real Leland would not have done those things.. Unless you want to claim that Dale Cooper is also deep down a monster just because HIS darker aspect is capable of the things his Doppleganger did. Dale Cooper is probably the most noble person ever, and even he is susceptible to the corruption in some way.. He is seemingly incorruptible and yet Mr. C exists.. I think it's missing the point to blame Leland when he obviously was not himself.. whatever metaphorical thing you want to take from it all. The entire point is THAT HE IS GOOD and he was still made to do these things. This is the point of showing the real Leland shining through occasionally so you can see the tragedy of a good man who loves his family being made to do horrible things . If he was a rotten egg to begin with, Bob is kind of redundant .
  17. I feel like the interpretation Lynch is going for is that WE ARE ALL TULPAS in a way, since we were all created from a thought. Every single being that exists is just a creation that was thought up from something else and when you go all the way back to the source, be it The Fireman or God or the Mother or whatever, it still boils down to the same thing. I truly believe that is the entire purpose of showing the golden orbs in the first place. There is fundamentally no difference between Laura and one of the Tulpas, except who or what spawned them. The one who spawned everything, the dreamer, is essentially God. Whether reality is a dream or some mystical thing, or a computer program, or whether there are purely mechanical answers is up for debate I guess. And that makes the distinction between tulpas, dopplegangers, and Laura/BOB moot in a way. The only real difference is that Tulpas come from other people, humans that we already "know" exist. It seems the further down you go, Tulpas coming from Dopplegangers, the more dim and less conscious they are, possibly because they are further away from the source and have less pure consciousness within them(which is probably why Laura and BOB's orbs seem to be much bigger. they are made from more metaphysical "stuff" than those tiny tulpa orbs). I appreciate the fact that this will probably not be explicitly spelled out for us, and Agent Cole's Monica Bellucci dream is probably the closest we will ever get to a definite answer. I like this interpretation the best as long as they keep it sort of vague and nebulous.
  18. It's pretty clear in the show that Leland wasn't even aware of his actions until the very end when BOB "pulled the ripchord".. I don't know how much more blameless you can get. Sure there has to be some darkness for BOB to enter, that much is clear. But I have no trouble believing that if it weren't for BOB possessing him (and remember this happened when he was very young, like 12 or something), he would have gone on to be a perfectly descent man. There's no way to know that for sure, but his final speech makes things lean HEAVILY in that direction. It's kind of the whole point of that end for him. He seems so childlike and innocent and just GOOD in those final moments. He finally lets go of the darkness and goes towards the light, free of BOB and at peace and with Laura. FWWM plays with that notion a bit, mostly for dramatic reasons I think, I mean imagine if Leland had been a raving lunatic that whole film, it just wouldn't have worked the same way. Even though we as the audience already knew he was possessed by BOB, it would be too obvious, particularly to Laura and the other characters, if they made it so cut and dried. But I don't think there are many people who could say Leland wasn't deep down a good person.
  19. I agree. When the episode is over, I'm always anxious for the podcast to be posted a few days later. IT'S SO GOOD! :-) Gonna miss the podcast and these forum discussions almost as much as the show when this is all over. Twin Peaks is such a good show for theorizing and discussing this stuff. I only know one person who has been keeping up who I can talk to in real life, so this forum/podcast has really filled a big void in talking about this stuff. Hopefully we still get that whole season retrospective thing you guys mentioned (I think?) a few weeks ago. Can't wait.
  20. If a good man like Leland can be driven to rape his own daughter, a truly evil character like Mr. C is not that much of a stretch. Especially if he hadn't quite wrestled the reins away from BOB in the beginning. I can see it taking years for his own personality to take over and become the dominant personality. I look back at the end of season 2 and I see a much different character than the one we have now. Much more like BOB. As he took over, he became more cold and logical, almost the opposite of BOB in a way since passions don't rule him. But he's still evil, and only out for himself. At this point in the story, BOB is more of a tool so he can have super human abilities than a part of his personality. Perhaps it can make sense that in the beginning he would behave like a serial rapist with purely hedonistic impulses whose only motive is to cause fear and to feed on it, but over the course of 25 years he became the more calculating, and truly formidable Mr. C that we have today. His goal now is self-preservation at any cost. Is Hutch a confirmed cuck? If this is true, I love it. I've kind of always been confused about what the exact nature of their relationship was.
  22. The show isn't only about those things. But it is about those things. The dark parts of it at least. People forget how dark and disturbing the original was, and how much it relied on that stuff to be disturbing. It may not have been as graphic or violent, but it was just as scary and disturbing as FWWM and The Return.
  23. Bingo. Makes me love the character even more. And her reaction.. "What if I fucking was!" She totally was.
  24. This show has always been about rape and violence and the horrific things people are capable of. It's the darkness of BOB and what these evil lodge creatures are capable of that makes them so terrifying. If they avoided things like that, it would have no teeth, and the bad guys would be like cartoons. Having some evil version of you running around doing such horrible things like rape and murdering people.. it's just unthinkable. it's the worst kind of violation. people you love now think you did this to them. I can't think of anything worse. Some of the best things about FWWM were about Laura dealing with and coming to realize the abuse she suffered at the hands of her own father. It's precisely what made that movie so great. It's uncomfortable, but Twin Peaks is one of the few shows that explores these things and does it well. I think so anyways.. The original run sort of danced around it a bit more, I suspect because it was a prime time show on ABC and not HBO Showtime. There's probably only so much dark and mature themes they could get away with in the early nineties on network TV. But even then, they still addressed it often, and they did a good job at it. It never seemed contrived or gratuitous or exploitative or anything like that. I don't think The Return has either.
  25. Haha! That song is fucking terrible! You're welcome! :-) ALL