Gailbraithe

Like I said, I don't want to be in this argument. My background is in criminology, and the people making this argument's background is in feminism or something, and my experience is that it's better if the "rape is a crime" people (i.e. me) don't talk to the "rape is social phenomenon/culture/accident" people, because we will never understand each other, and their worldview offends me. Once you start talking about something is rape but nobody deserves to be punished for it, I just check out. You're talking total nonsense as far as I'm concerned. If you want to call Janey-E a rapist, feel fucking free, I will just stand over here and roll my eyes at how dramatic you're being, knowing good damn well that it means nothing to you to call her that.

I wasn't going to get involved in the argument, but I agree with you. It's very eye-roll inducing. No offense to the people advancing this theory, but they're operating on a strictly literal, technical application of a not particularly grounded definition of rape. All you really need to know this is not rape is to look at Cooper's face during the scene. He's clearly enjoying himself. To many people on the internet use this completely clinical, mechanistic definition of rape that completely excludes the fact that rape is a crime and it's supposed to be an offense against a person, so they end up defining things as rape but then balking at the idea that anything should be done about it. The way I look at it, if you say "X is rape." then you're saying a criminal act has occurred and thus justice is demanded. The average sentence for a rapist is 10 years in prison. Does Janey-E deserve to spend a decade in jail because she took a man she thinks is her husband to bed and he had an extremely pleasant experience? Is that justice? I find the idea that this could be called justice pretty silly, and thus its pretty silly to call it rape.

That was pretty much my reaction. There was no real plot development in this episode, and huge amounts of time were given over to developing Candy (don't care), Richard getting money (don't care!), and Chad getting the mail (really don't care!). Janey-E mirin' on Agent Coop was pretty funny, and Albert and Constance out on a date was cute, but nothing actually happened this episode. The only plot development we got at all was: Bad Cooper is definitely behind the Glass Box (thought so!) Diane is definitely working with Bad Cooper (boo! hiss! do not want!)

Even when Bobby and Mike were in jail with James and tried to intimidate him by barking like dogs? Even when Bobby was talking tough to Shelly about how he would protect her from Leo, even though he turned into a cowardly fink any time Leo showed up? Even when Bobby let Audrey push him around and turn him into her puppet, and made him dress up like a goofy confederate soldier? Face it, there were a lot of times when Bobby was the exact opposite of cool. Bobby didn't become cool until he stopped trying to be cool.

Wow, what an awesome episode. I love it when plot threads start intertwining. The revelation that Hastings and Davenport were investigating the "Zone" (aka the Black Lodge?) was a massive plotbomb that suddenly explained so much -- obviously the coordinates Bad Cooper is searching for are the coordinates Ruth found for the Major, and now we understand why Bad Cooper wanted to frame Hastings. I really loved the stuff with Bobby, and I'm so happy that he's going to play a bigger role as the season goes on, and not just be a background player. The sound in Beverly's office is obviously going to have continuing importance, and I'm glad it wasn't just random weirdness. Also, I totally felt for Jerry Horne in this episode. I have so been there, man. So been there. I actually feel like that is leading somewhere too, and I think Jerry is probably making his way, unwittingly, towards this Jack Rabbit Palace and a truly mind-blowing trip. Finally, very interesting that they brought up Johnny Horne. Wonder where that will lead. Oh, and of course, the tidbit that will have everyone flying off into wild conjecture land: Why is Diane receiving texts from Bad Cooper!?!

Sam Lanterman, the Log Lady's deceased husband, died sometime between 1958 and 1983, while the Woodsmen died in the Night of the Burning River incident of 1902, so its very unlikely that Sam is a Woodsman -- though the Woodsmen may have played a role in his death.

Have you actually seen Q2's edit? The first part of the movie, the Teresa Banks part, focuses on the FBI and Chester Desmond's investigation. Then it switches gears as it begins counting down Laura's last seven days. Each day starts with a black title card announcing the day (Monday, Tuesday, etc.), a scene from the town, then shifts focus to Laura. The Missing Pieces scenes give you a real sense that Twin Peaks is happening all around Laura, blithely unaware of what she's experiencing, and highlights the loneliness and disconnect that Laura experiences. Laura didn't defeat BOB, she escaped his clutches. If she had defeated him, then Maddie wouldn't have died. And Cooper hasn't lost yet. Story isn't over, last time I checked. If you consider all three seasons as acts in a Three Act Narrative, then Cooper's loss in the Black Lodge would fall at the the Crisis point: Cooper's escape from the Black Lodge would be the climax of Act Two, and the entire DougieCoop storyline is the journey from the Act II Climax to the Act III Climax.

I have to agree with Bjorn, this seems like a really unfair and skewed reading of the text. Laura insults James behind his back, but at the same time she tries to protect him from the black hole consuming her. Donna pushes her way into that dark part of Laura's world, and Laura freaks out and tries to protect Donna. Bobby seems pretty intent on being his own undoing with or without Laura, as we can see from his interactions with Shelly and the Hornes -- I think it would be more fair to say that Laura is used and corrupted by Bobby then the other way around. And I'm not sure who you are referring to when you say Laura recruited young women to be prostitutes. Ronette? I don't think the text supports that. Seems more like Ronette was recruited into prostitution either by Emory Battis or Teresa Banks around the same time Laura was.

Maybe Laura isn't gold in the sense of purity, but in the sense of treasure. Like the Giant created Laura as a lure to draw BOB out so that he would be exposed by Cooper and ultimately destroyed. Keeping in mind that BOB and the Giant live outside our perception of time, maybe BOB learned of Laura's existence and possessed Leland so that he could corrupt her and use her as a power source to advance his agenda. Gold seems to have magical power or significance -- Dougie transforms into a gold ball, the Owl Ring is gold. The Giant has outsmarted BOB, because he knew that by attempting to claim Laura, BOB would draw the attention of Dale Cooper, who has the intuition and intelligence to possibly defeat BOB, given a few helpful nudges in the right direction.

Barely though, right? It's mostly set in Las Vegas and South Dakota. Not that I'm complaining, of course. I totally understand where you're coming from, but I come at the show from a different direction and consequently each of the seasons feels like it naturally follows from the season before. To me, Twin Peaks is about FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper, and all the other characters are secondary considerations. I also don't divide the show into "seasons" based on airdates. Everytime I rewatch the show I'm surprised that Laura Palmer's murder is "solved" in Season 2, because my memory insists that the series breaks down thusly: Episode 1 thru 16 "The Murder of Laura Palmer" -- The first story arc brings FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper to Twin Peaks in search of Laura Palmer's murderer, and ends with the revelation of Leland Palmer. Episode 17 thru 30 "Dwellers on the Threshold" -- The second story arc introduces the Black Lodge and Cooper's nemesis Windham Earle, and ends with Dale Cooper failing the test in the Black Lodge. Episode 31 through 38 "The Search for Dale Cooper" -- Having failed the test of the Black Lodge, the third story arc details Cooper's quest to confront and defeat his own shadow (Mister C.), which naturally involves a journey of self-discovery. Fire Walk With Me is a prequel that focuses on Laura Palmer, and gives some needed background on the FBI's involvement in supernatural affairs, but isn't essential to Cooper's story. Also, I treat the Q2 fan-edit Teresa Banks and the Last Seven Days of Laura Palmer (which edits most of The Missing Pieces into FWWM) as canon over FWWM, since I think it's a much better movie and closer in feeling to Twin Peaks and Lynch's vision than FWWM, whose length was determine more by commercial realities than artistic choice. You should take advantage of the break to watch Lost Highway and Mulholland Drive. I'd say those two are the most relevant to Twin Peaks: The Return. Lost Highway in particular, since that very much deals with the concept of the shadow self.

Congratulations on being a better person than me.

Oh man, based on the reaction reddit is having to that post, I would say that if that line makes sense to you, then you're in the top 10% of the fanbase in terms of intelligence. One of the reasons I came here from reddit is the fans here seem much smarter than the fans on reddit, where it seems like 75%+ of the fans are drooling idiots. I really don't understand how some of these people can even enjoy the show, they don't seem to be able to follow even the most simple of storylines. I saw one guy who read that Facebook post I just shared and came to the conclusion that Robert Broski played the Woodsman in the jail in South Dakota and that the Woodsmen are supposed to be the Archangel Gabriel, which truly makes me despair for the educational system wherever he lives. I mean that goes beyond reading comprehension fail straight to check this man for serious head trauma. It hasn't been explicitly stated that it's Earle's old computer, but it's the same prop and it would make perfect sense for Bad Cooper to grab it before leaving Twin Peaks, what with Earle being dead and all. I think it's a pretty safe assumption. Keep in mind that may just be his interpretation of events. I wouldn't be too quick to take it as gospel. That said, BOB seems to be deeply submerged within Bad Cooper -- we've seen few signs of BOB in the show, with his only appearance before this episode being his brief and very subtle appearance in the mirror, which prompts Bad Cooper to say something like "Good, you're still with me" as if he wasn't sure that BOB was still there. What that suggests is that the Bad Cooper we've seen so far is just who Bad Cooper is, with BOB being relatively dormant within him. So I wouldn't expect Bad Cooper to change much at all. I mean this could very likely be a way of subtly removing the need for the late Frank Silva to make any appearances beyond that black ball of tar with his face in it.

Just saw something interesting posted on reddit, thought I'd share it here. Listening to the podcast it seemed Jake and Chris were confused if the Woodsman was just the "Got a light?" guy or all the soot covered men. This is a post from the guy who played the soot covered man in the jail cell, he confirms that they're all Woodsmen.

Bad Cooper seems to have access to "magical technology." He disrupted the entire prison by punching codes into the phone, he hacked into the prison system and got blueprints with Windham Earle's 25+ year old black box, it just seems to be a thing with him. This only supports my theory that Bad Cooper is a "black magician" or "evil sorcerer." But yeah, technology in his hands is essentially magic.

The scene with the married couple who encounter the Woodsman on the road seems like it might be an oblique reference to the Levelland UFO Case. Obviously not the same case, as the Levelland event occured in 1957 in Texas, but it still felt like it was meant to evoke that event.

Well, my comment was more about the speculation than anything else. I don't think it's very productive, and I feel like it all comes down to how you feel about Twin Peaks. Personally, I think the "Bad Coop raped Diane/Audrey" theory does a poor job of explaining the facts that have been presented, but I don't really want to get into arguments with people over it. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right. I'd like the show to say, not argue about it endlessly.

There is no way that girl is 11 years old. She's around 15, which ought to be obvious from the fact that her parents are allowing her to be out with a boy at night. Also, the chances that girl survived to adulthood are exceptionally slim. The whole segment was a Lynchian take on the classic 1950's Atomic Horror film, and my guess is that the only person who made it out alive is the boy, as he's the only character we see who wasn't within range of a radio during the Woodsman's broadcast. Also, everything I can find on wikia about Sarah Palmer suggests she was born and raised in Washington state, not Arizona. Congratulations, you have just discovered the difference between art and entertainment.

I do know a lot about guns (dad was a gunsmith), and if they were spent rounds it would be very obvious because the firing caps would have been blown. They weren't blanks either, as those have firing caps and no bullet (so loud sound, no projectile). Given what we saw, my guess would be that the warden removed the firing pin from the gun. That would be hard to notice without taking the gun apart and definitely wouldn't have been spotted in the quick exam we saw Bad Cooper give the gun, and would result in nothing happening when you pulled the trigger.

Having had a night to sleep on it, I've had a few more thoughts about this episode. I'm not ready to jump on the cosmic battle between good and evil bandwagon yet, but I'm also disappointed that it seems to be heading in that direction. Laura may have been created as a "anti-toxin" to "cure" the world of BOB, without the fate of the world necessarily hanging in the balance. It also seems to really undermine the "BOB is the patron saint of rape!" theory that some people are invoking to justify the "Evil Cooper raped Diane/Audrey" theory -- Ep. 8 really goes a long ways towards explaining why BOB wanted to corrupt Laura. If Laura was created to heal the wound that is BOB, then BOB would want to corrupt Laura to prevent his own destruction. This would suggest that BOB specifically targeted Leland so that he could gain access to Laura and ruin her, rather than suggesting that BOB chose Leland at random and targeted Laura because BOB is all about forcing his hosts to rape the people they care about most. Also, and no offense to the people suggesting this theory, but the idea that the frogbug was anything but evil is crazypants. I mean clearly the Woodsman's broadcast was intended to help the frogbug find a host, and it's hard to believe anything related to the Woodsman is good.

Ok, yeah that makes sense. I was thinking that if Cooper was killed that would cause the information to go out, but maybe not.

Oh, and my least favorite thing about this episode: Now I have to sit through two more weeks of people speculating that Evil Cooper raped Diane and Audrey. Was really, really hoping for a development that would quash that, no such luck. ...and how did Ray trick Evil Cooper anyways? Did he make a deal with the warden? Why would the warden make a deal with Ray? It sure didn't seem like Ray had time to swap the guns, and where did Ray get a gun anyways? Yeah, sure, you guys can sit and ponder the meaning of the atomic bomb and ask if the Giant is God, but me, I'm asking the real questions. By which I mean desperately clinging to the five minutes of this episode I can vaguely make sense of. Seriously, that was the weirdest thing I've seen since Begotten.

Well...that was...different. I have a feeling we just watched Gordon Cole's origin story. I definitely think the Boy (1956) is Gordon.

If that were the case, doesn't that seem like something Diane would have brought up when Gordon came to ask for her help? Also Gordon's question to Diane after her meeting with Evil Cooper would be a really dumb question if Diane had previously told Gordon about being raped by Cooper.

I just found out that there isn't going to be a new episode on the 2nd. What's up with that? If they're all already in the can, why would there be any skipped weeks?

I have a sneaky suspicion that if Evil Cooper enters the casino and triggers the mob goons, that will end very badly for the mob goons.