clyde

Does this mean that you don't think there are currently counter-cultures? Also, I think there is some value in having a group-identity in fashion, perspective and taste that is perceived to be reactionary to the norm.

Let's not pretend that I don't love it. I'm starting to wonder if the group I should really identify with is the conversational narcissists.

I would play through vanilla once. Then just buy Brave New World (Gods &Kings is included) because it makes the game ao much more deep in a good way. The religion system, World Congress, and spy system all come together to make the game intriguing. The reason I recommend vanilla first is that the base-game has enough to learn during the first playthrough.Now when I play I'm just chomping at the bit for the World Congress to start. It's my favorite part.

Some aspects of it, yes. I identify more with the hipster side than the square side. Honestly, I wouldn't care so much if being called a hipster wasn't immediately assumed to be a pejorative. It seems like popular culture (the squares) have managed to create a circumstance where people should be ashamed for having idiosyncratic tastes. I am aware that when I recommend bands, games, and art I like, I am likely to be accused of only liking it because it's different than the normal rather than being complimented on developing an appreciation of something abnormal. The same thing is happening either way, but it often feels like expressing sincere interest is considered to be an offense in itself if it doesn't agree with the norms. Another thing is that I do feel that something is lost when a piece of art becomes popular. I think more is gained, but expressing an appreciation for the rarity of appreciation is immediately considered to be elitist. If I just felt that I was the only one being influenced by this zeitgeist, I would probably not care as much, but the way I perceive things is that when hipsters identify a new hawtness and promote it, or if have an appreciation for that phase of popularity; they are insulted for it and that seems offensive to me.I also have square tendencies. Like I mentioned before, I enjoy the enjoyment of popular video games because they are popular. A big reason I enjoyed Frozen was that it was popular. But I don't see that form of appreciation being attacked very often (actually, I do, but it comes in the form of "what a hipster") and when I do, I'll proclaim "Squares4Life!"

I don't see why thinking that I am cool necessitates that others are not. It's true that I think there are some people who are not cool, but I do think it's hypothetically possible for us all to be cool. That's the premise for Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure if I'm not mistaken.As far as hipsters versus squares goes, this is how I see it. Squares are pretty much the status-quo, if you don't believe that tere is a status-quo, then I got nothing for you. Hipsters are the people that look beyond the art they are supposed to like (popular art) and find art that they like for reasons beyond being accepted by the majority. So think of hipsters and squares this way as I explain further. There is nothing inherently superior about being a hipster and nothing inherently wrong with being a square, but they are opposing views. One thinks that popularity increases the value of art while the other thinks it decreases the value. When I say that using "hipster" as a pejorative means that you are square, I'm saying that the willingness to accuse someone else of being lesser because they don't like something that's popular and do give more credit to something that is outside the mainstream, then they are likely coming from the perspective of the squares. It doesn't mean that they get a brand and can never change or anything; it just means that they are revealing their dominant perspective on the hipster/square spectrum. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_(slang)

Are you playing with the expansions? Is this your first Civilization game?

I also have this difficulty. When I browse contemporary jazz, I rarely find something that sounds distinct to me. I'd be very grateful if this thread made some suggestions of contemporary jazz that might give me that since of distinction. One example I can think of is Mulatu Astatke Another example of something that caught my attention was the Matt Panayides track called "Freedom's Illusion".

I like jazz. I was listening to Squarepusher's Z-machines last night, but it didn't hit for me. That was somewhat disappointing. Otherwise I have Grant Green's Idle Moments on constant rotation, assorted Stan Getz, and I love Miles Davis's bebop and Thelonious Monk.

I had no idea that this was such a lost cause. Am I seriously the only self-identified hipster? Am I the last willing remnant of the counter-culture tradition?

No! This is what I'm fighting for. The squares have managed to wrestle the concept of hipster away from us cool folk and made it exclusively derogatory. Being hip is cool! The word has an actual meaning. The derogatory use is pure nonsense.

When I read this, I think you are referring to the act of accusing someone of being a hipster rather than the actions of the hipsters themselves. Is this correct? By this reading, it sounds like you have a problem with squares.Edit: actually, I imagine you would have the same problem if a hipster made a judgement about someone's squarishness.

Art-appreciation and criticism is really enjoyable for me. I'm an artist myself, so I form a venacular to understand what goals are possible, what techniques are available, and how the dynamics of the artistic media play out. Why I judge some things and not others: I am used to thinking of some media as more expressive than others. Paintings and drawings are on the more expressive side of the spectrum for me than something like phone-book listings. I think whether or not I consider a medium expressive is probably relevant to how the reality of the piece relates to my expectations. I like art that acknowledges my expectations and then subverts them the most, next up is art that defies my expectations, and then as art becomes closer and closer to my expectations of the medium I find it boring and sucky. In the past, displays of kid-art has evoked all three of these reactions in me so I have decided that kid-art in general is worthy of discussion and judgement.

You sound like a hipster. I think this "It's hip to be square" fad has gone too far and now it has become uncool to be cool. Admitting that you have taste (good taste and bad taste) has become taboo. Fuck that. I think I'm cool as shit, and I'm not going to pretend otherwise because it's not fashionable. Hipster4Life.

I don't want to upset you. Maybe the misunderstanding is that you think I'm judging 5 year-olds and I think I'm judging the art-works of 5 year-olds. If you are still angry with me for judging the art-work of 5 year-olds, then I'm not sure why and I would like to hear why that upsets you (if you want to share). If you think that judging the art-work of 5 year-olds is a de-facto judgment on the 5 year-olds themselves then I'm interested in your reasons for believing that. Why are you upset with me?

I'm trying to figure out if the kid-art that I enjoy has cultural relevance. That may be a very general way to put it. I tend to like it when there is a noticable attempt at representation (preferably people or animals) or a commitment to an aesthetic hypothesis (such as filling the entire page with color in a way that you can imagine when they tired of a specific crayon and which one the moved to next). I don't really think they need cultural relevance, unless you would consider the techniques I mentioned as some form of cultural relevance. Most kid art isn't like this though. Most of the time when I look at a wall of kid-art, it looks more like an exhibit of a teacher's choice from a template. A paper-plate with a single line for a mouth and two circles for eyes and hair yarn. I even get the impression that the kid didn't get to choose the yarn length or color because the teacher decided that it should be somewhat representational of the kid. I hate that shit; it sucks. I'm a hipster; I have taste. But sometimes kid-art can really express something besides that the child was led through a series of actions. I lke it when they color a picture biasedly. For instance, you might see a ditto of a cartoon man who only has his arms and shoes colored and the shoes look like they've been gone over by three colors; that is interesting to me. I'm not interested in the fact that the kid showed up, that should just be assumed as a base-line IMO.

I'm not really sure what you mean. I like the antiquity of some things and the newness of others. I think most of it sucks. Like I said, it's like they aren't even trying. Here is a great example of what being a hipster is like. I like some kid art, not all of it. edit: I realized that you might be saying that the time I started liking something relevant to the time other people started liking something has no intrinsic value. I think what I enjoy about there being a large difference is that sometimes I feel like Indiana Jones finding a piece of treasure to show to other people; I like that feeling. Also, when I like something before it becomes popular, I don't question whether or not I just like it because other people like it (as much). It's easier for me to see whether or not I like its intrinsic qualities. And then when it becomes popular, it feels like I guessed how many jelly-beans were in the jar and I got it right. There are also times I enjoy being in the zeitgeist. Video-games for example. I want to be part of the discussion when a new game comes out. I would feel the same way about old games, if there was active discussion about old games.

Let me try to put in in slightly less offensive terms; I enjoy watching things I enjoy become successful. As far as my initial mistrust of popular art, I think mainstream art has a conditioning effect that makes it more difficult to appreciate things that are not famous. A really obvious version of this is production standards. The more I watch television or movies with huge budgets, the more difficult it is for me to watch high school students perform plays. It's a weird thing. It's not that I can't manage my expectations at all, but certain qualities seem to have a way of making other options seem obsolete. Pacing is a big one. Watching Daguerreotypes was difficult the first time because it felt slow. Why did it feel slow? I believe that it felt slow because one of the tendencies that isn't even questioned in popular movies is an incredibly fast pace, and the necessity of narratives rather than atmospheres and perspectives. You may be different than I, but the overabundance of certain practices conditions my expectations and perspectives to make some things more enjoyable than others. I have found that having a skepticism about popular art has helped me battle this and sincerely get excited about... maybe three or so pieces of children's art of 30. Most kid art is pretty shitty, it's like they aren't even trying. And I disagree that the coolest thing a person can do is stop trying to look cool. I think that the coolest thing a person can do is simultaneously become more compassionate and more capable. It doesn't matter to me if they do it in order to look cool.

http://kenney.itch.io/kenney-donation

For me, "hipster" does have a connotation of ascribing value to knowing what is cool before other people do. I think that some people are offended by the enjoyment of this aspect. I can see why it would be off-putting for someone to use evidence that they knew about something first as some tool to claim superiority, but I wonder how often that is actually what happens. In my case, I do get additional excitement about realizing that I sincerely enjoyed something before many other people did, or even in spite of their derision. That doesn't keep me from enjoying popular art and past-times but I start out by assuming that I will not enjoy popular art and have to make effort towards giving it a chance. I think this is a hipster quality, common amongst hipsters. As a self-identified hipster, here are two situations I find myself in: - Sometimes, I hold back information that I have an intimate knowledge of some piece of art because it might stop the other person from telling me about their enjoyment of it. Also, I am concerned that they will see my experience as a name-drop whose purpose is to get some sort of upper-hand in our interaction. -Sometimes I find myself having to defend a popular piece of art in terms that conflict with the popular rationale for why it is good. This puts me in a position where I am conscious that someone may think I am a "hipster" (in the pejorative sense) claiming that I even if I enjoy a popular piece of art, I have to create a new reason for enjoying it in order to distance myself from a majority. This claim puts my particular criticism of the art in an especially patronizing light that takes much more effort to get other people to consider. I'm not really complaining, I'm just trying to enlighten y'all about what it's like to be a hipster.

I'm interested in hearing why, but Nappi is right, it deserves its own thread. https://www.idlethumbs.net/forums/topic/9336-hipsters/#entry288109

I think that the contemporary use of the term has been exclusively as a pejorative. This is where claims such as "No one self-ascribes as a hipster" come from. Lately, it's been used for no other purpose but to demean others and simultaneously claim that they are the group who is being exclusive and snobbish. To me, this is a waste of a term with an awesome history. Why let the squares define what "hipster" is? That's like letting people who don't like jazz decide what people who listen to jazz should be called! The frequent use of the word "like" didn't come from valley-girls (though if it did, that would be just as cool), it came from existential doubts that expressed themselves inherently in conversation. fixed the link How cool is that?

I think that "hipster" has a great heritage. I'm proud to be a hipster.

I don't understand.

You are probably right, I shouldn't gate information like that. But still, I already have a tendency to talk about myself too much during conversations. Sometimes it seems like mentioning how I got hipped to something will stop the other person from telling me about their experience with it.But at the same time, I wince at the potential sense of betrayal I'll receive when it comes up. "Why didn't you tell me!" Not only am I a hipster and a snob, but I'm also narcissistic.

Civilization 5 is so good.