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Posts posted by lumberbaron

  1. What the fuck? Is this real life? It is not your or anyone else's business what someone gets up to in their own home until such time as it is proven that what they're doing is harmful to other people. Sure, suspicions can merit investigation, but it is not the job of an internet-born angry mob to do so. Even further, the people under scrutiny should be these alleged journalists, and not Zoe. Instead the internet is sharing pictures of Zoe in the nude with her friends through Twitter, etc. Not to mention the rape and death threats. That's what's happening here and that's what you're defending. You're wrong. Stop it.

    And let's not even get into the fact that Zoe volunteered for none of this attention. People targeted her long before any of these accusations simply because she is a woman and she made a game about real life issues instead of shooting dudes with guns.


    You also neglected the part where I said that elected official represent us, and as such I would like to know who they are.  So thanks for skipping over that to prove a point.


    You might think this is an internet born angry mob, but there isn't a ton of places anyone can go for actual coverage as everyone seems to know everyone so they won't cover it, or they are worried about lawsuits so they won't start.  


    Also "Zoe in the nude with her friends through Twitter"  what? No. No.  Please don't get people calling for this to be following into in the same boat as people doing terrible and nasty things.  That is... What? No...


    I will also argue that Zoe did volunteer for attention as she has given talks in the past and is trying to start her own game jam.

  2. There potentially was an ethical debate that could have happened at one point.  But it's grown WAAAAY beyond that.  There is a massive difference between an intelligent discussion about press coverage and threatening a woman with death, rape, phone calls, and actual real life visits to her residence.  The former is not misogyny.  The latter is and it's what's happening now.  It's not that she's a woman and should therefore be immune to scrutiny.  But that level of scrutiny should be the same as it would be for any man.  I very much doubt if the roles were reversed and an angry ex-girlfriend made a blog about her boyfriend in the games industry he would get this level of treatment.  If anything the ex probably end up getting what we're seeing now with Zoe.


    I agree with you.  The people who are threatening her are 100% in the wrong. 


    Well, why don't you lead with example and start with a bigger fish than her?


    We should start with the fish we have instead of casting back and waiting for it to be right.  feelthedarkness brought up Dov Charney, that man should be punished to the fullest extent of the law and had it happen before it got nearly as far as it did.  

  3. 80% of Jobs are found through networking:


    You can consider yourself atypical.


    and no, it would not be misogyny to not humiliate her for being a woman. The point I'm trying to make is that men are not humiliated for receive the biases they receive. No white man is going to be targeted by a hate group because of his inherent advantage. Zoe was. The world "lets go" natural advantages of being wealthy, male, and white all the time. What is different in this case?


    Excuse me for not thinking that was done is "networking".  I see her relationship with Patrick Klepick as "networking".  Met through mutual job intersections, worked together on various projects.  I am not a fan of his, but I don't see what they did as wrong as that is pretty standard.  This does not fall into that category.


    I think everyone should be held to the regard that we are currently holding her, honestly.  Male or female.  


    The Robert Ashley thing is super interesting, honestly, and I get just as annoyed when things like that come to light.


    Also, as a man, and possibly (likely in certain fields) of a certain class, you enjoy certain inherent privileges that are not accessible to women (or all) developers. Calling out Zoe for this is misogyny.


    Nobody is going to get humiliated in public for having grown up with upper/middle class and having all their upper/middle class friends pull strings to get them jobs. It's how MOST business is done. 


    Nobody is humiliating men for being "taken more seriously" etc....


    Trust me on this, I grew up far from middle class.  I had no friends to pull strings.  As far as I have seen in my life this is NOT how business is done, regardless of how movies want us to think.


    Also, I would call anyone out for this.  I don't see how calling Zoe out is misogyny at all.  Wouldn't letting it go because she was a woman be misogyny?  If this was a guy sleeping with someone for press coverage shouldn't we all freak out the same way?  How about instead of saying we should take any one section of people more seriously we just do that and say that this was wrong.


    Once again, not how business is done.



  5. Actually you do care about her.



    Or in other words, she deserves to be "exposed" for something she may or may not have done. Guilty until... well, never proven innocent because it's not in her personal interest to prove herself innocent as it just eggs on the trolls who want to ruin her life. Also, there's not much proof to be found in he-said and she-said. So basically just if there's a concern, that person is guilty. Gotcha.


    So are we supposed to just forget that any of this happen?


    I care about her so far as it extends to games journalism.  The previous statement was probably too dismissive in its entirety.  


    If she had a relationship with someone from the media they should have excused themselves from covering her game. End of story.Tons of sites have done that in the past. That didn't happen. The fact that it didn't is concerning.

  6. Nobody made that claim. He was saying the internet is not her boss, so she's not accountable to strangers just because they feel like they are allowed to judge her.


    If that is the case then I was in the wrong with that and I apologize.  


    Also, I don't care either way about her, honestly.  I care about what Kotaku did.  She is seemingly a lightening rod for this because it may have gone farther than we know, and it was exposed on her end.  This makes me angry about the way games are covered in general.  Things need to change. If this is true it is not ok in the slightest.

  7. As some people have already said, the ethical concerns are so thoroughly eclipsed by the savage persuction Quinn has been victim to that to even discuss them is kind of ridiculous. It's like complaining about the food when the restaurant is on fire. All I'll say is that being a public figure is not the same as being a public servant. How much we need to know about the private lives of politicians is a whole other rather thorny discussion, but it's an entirely separate matter than what we need to know about the private lives of people who just happen to be well-known (which is basically nothing).


    I believe that elected officials personal lives should be an open book.  It is their job to represent us.  In that manner you should know what you can about the person who is supposed to speak for you.


    I don't generally get angry about what other posters put in this thread, because I think that's counter-productive and I don't generally want to discourage people from posting in here.  But your entire post is righteously fucked up.  So, sorry, but I'm going to be fucking blunt.  Stop.  Stop trying to draw these tenuous comparisons between this and other possible situations. This is concern trolling.  Trying to justify people harassing her and invading her private life by comparing her to an elected government official is misogynistic, because you're holding a person who makes free twine games up to the same standard as the people who make and enforce our laws.  What the fuck is wrong with you for thinking that?  It's bullshit.  It's borderline evil. 


    1.  The Internet is not her office. 

    2.  The Internet is not her boss who needs to sit down and have a talk with her.

    3.  She's not an elected official.  She's not even a public figure.  She might be a limited purpose public figure, and that would probably be debatable.  It in no way justifies the scrutiny or attention she is receiving.   


    1. The internet is her office.  For someone who publishes and promotes games exclusively on it it is the area that probably takes up most of her time.

    2. She has a boss. She currently works at Loveshack Entertainment making Framed.  

    3. Limited purpose public figure is still a public figure, one of which she completely fits the definition of. 


    I used the public official as an example, but we can also talk about people in bands if you like, or actors, or any one else that would fit into a small market that would raise flags if the same thing happened.  If this was a singer going for coverage in a magazine people would be covering it and concerned.

  8. You see a figure on the side of the road with it's thumb out.  You decide to pick this person up because you could use some company on your drive.  Only too late do you realize it's actually a robot.





    Am I a terrible person for seeing that video and thinking "I probably would have stopped when any work at all was involved with getting it into my car".

  9.  Nobody in this world is a saint, be it malicious, mistakes, or misunderstandings. But most of what makes that true is between those directly involved and nobody else's goddamn business.


    True, we aren't Saints, none of us.  But when your private life intersects your public, and more importantly, your professional, it becomes part of your public and professional life.  If my wife was to come into my job and start screaming at me about something at the very least I would have to have a sit down meeting with two higher-ups about how I need to keep that out of the office.  This isn't even dating at the office either, this is people who directly have the power to further her career.  If this was an elected official or any other "public figure" the stand belief would be that they lose that right to privacy once they "take office".  She is nothing if not a public figure, giving talks and going various places to promote her games.  I believe that if there is even a concern that she did something unsavory to push herself forward in any manner it should be brought to light.

  10. Picked up Witch Craft Works on the suggestion of a friend and finished it in two days. Was rather impressed with the entire thing, even if it ended up explaining nothing at at all.

  11. Been playing around with it for a little over a week and my only complaint is that it is pretty much entirely without tutorial.  Chunks of the first section I made are overly complex and basically the wrong way to do things, mainly because I had no other idea how to do it other than some of the very basic and visible notes left out.  It is at the very least an interesting experience to be making something, even if it is basically going to fall apart the moment I loose focus.

  12.  Also Nanana is quickly becoming my favorite New Anime for this season. And by quickly, I mean it has been for a while.


    Nanana is amazing, although they have a really weird way of ending episodes.  For that matter there have been a couple of times that they started an episode and I felt like I missed something.  Still love that show though.

  13. I actually kinda like the dimension shifting platforming puzzles.  The one that's driving me nuts is the Megaman like one with the disappearing platforms.


    Didn't get that far before the drunken stupor got the better of me and I decided I still wanted to like the game when I put it down for the night.  Some of the dimension shifting stuff was clever, some of the required stuff seemed a little extreme.  I am all for putting extra secret endings behind whatever walls you can muster, but it sort of felt like the game went for 0 to Super Meat Boy pretty fast.

  14. Just finished Danganronpa (in one afternoon, thank you), and aside from basically reading wiki's for 20 minutes after to figure out a couple of things I kind of feel like my brains is leaking out of my ear.


    Speaking of the aforementioned Titan, annoyed else slightly annoyed that the manga is monthly?

  15. Picked up the game on the last day of the sale because I am weak.  Played some offline and thought it was interesting but impossible with the AI, tried online and got booted from a mission before it started.  Thought I would check with thumbs to see if they wanted to do some looting.

  16. I'm really enjoying this game. It's become my game of choice when I just feel like playing something for anywhere between 5 minutes and 2 hours. However, I'm finding a keyboard setup quite difficult to use. It recommends using a controller but there's no way I'm forking out for one. 



    If you have a 360 a wireless adapter is like 10 dollars on Amazon.


    Has everyone gotten past complaining about the random platforming? If not I would like to bitch some.  Game randomly seems to want to slow progress down for no reason.  I sat down with it one night, with a couple of beers, and really enjoyed myself until there was that entire vertical moving platform that you have to phase in and out of worlds in time thing.  I got through that section and put the game down and haven't gone back in a couple of days.  I liked it until that point though.


    Also, what is with indie games doing shout outs to each other recently?  It just seems to have suddenly happened one day.

  17. I also bought Spelunky last night.


    ~evil laugh~ good.  good.


    I have bought:


    Ys Collection

    Tomb Raider Collection

    Max Payne 3 Complete


    Risk of Rain

    Papers Please


    Been on the fence about a couple of things.  For some reason payday 2 seems to be HUGE on PC and I cannot for the life of me figure out why.  It seems cool, but multiplayer games have a habit of going south fast for no reason. Also DMC keeps whispering to me...

  18. I've got a Steam giftable copy of Don't Starve if any of the regulars want it (completely agree with the new rules).


    Edit: So I'm getting hit with PMs as well from leechers.  This will blow if they kill this thread. 


    Not interested in the game at all, but how is it? (Understand this isn't the thread for such discussion. was just lurking when I saw you brought it up)