ThunderPeel2001

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Posts posted by ThunderPeel2001

  2. Posted

    No, sorry: bullshit. Max Payne is far more twitch-based throughout than Gears of War is at its most frenetic. And nobody refers to that series as being FPS.

    You've not only shot your argument in the foot with this, you've taken both of its legs off as well. Ergo, your argument has no legs.

    darth_vader_nooo.jpeg

    Well, if you insist it's more "twitch" based, it doesn't mean that Gears of War hasn't got more in common with Quake than it does with Max Payne. Again, just my opinion. I probably used the wrong word with "twitch", I guess.

    Hey, I still got my legs!

  3. Posted

    This is absurd circular reasoning, "it's being debated so obviously my viewpoint is the correct one" ? That's a very convenient debating tool ¬ ¬

    We're talking about the possibility of it, and whether it's valid, that doesn't automatically make either of those things true.

    No... we're talking about how it's already been referred to as a FPS by other people on multiple occassions, and whether the people who describe it as such are wrong or right or foolish or whatever.

    Quote from Ben, who started this whole discussion, with this post: "I don't know why everyone insists on referring to Gears of War as an "FPS". It's not. So stop it. Everyone."

    It's not circular reasoning in any way.

    And, just because I think he's right, here's what Rodi said after Ben: "[Why do people insist on calling Gears a FPS?] I guess it's because in practice it feels so much like the direct approach of FPSses. There's a sense of immediacy that is often lacking in 3rd person shooters, where you can clearly feel some distance between you and the avatar you are controlling. So, I think it's not a fluke that everyone accidentally calls it an FPS. Regardless of how you call it however, I am keenly tempted to group it with FPS games because apart from the perspective, the game plays much the same."

    The use of the word "sick" to mean something good is one of countless examples of words being used ironically, sure the original meaning is directly in contrast with the new one but that is exactly the point. It exaggerates the descriptor to the point of being "so good it's bad". The use of FPS we are talking about isn't being used ironically it's just being used wrongly.

    You've totally missed the point. I wasn't saying that using "sick" is an example of the whole FPS/TPS thing, but rather it was in response to those who say "I don't agree with this word being used in this way, therefore its usage hasn't changed". Do people actually read what is written, within the context that it's written, or do they just see what they want to see so they can argue?

    Wait wait, what you are saying here says that because FPS is being applied to Gears of War the term is now less precise and less useful....... this is exactly the reason it shouldn't be applied to GoW!

    There are many types of FPS games with varying gameplay styles, but they all have two things in common:

    1) a default first person perspective

    2) shooting as a dominant action

    Some have twitch / strafe gameplay, some are more deliberate and slow. None of them have a default third person perspective, the term FPS doesn't describe a gameplay style.

    Have to agree to differ on this one.

  4. Posted

    Although I admit it had its good moments (like the steam covered room). The point remains nonetheless.

    Yeah, I had a question about that room.

    Not sure, but it was a cool moment!

    What confused my about it was that the second I was "caught" and frozen, I thought... "what now??" ...then I just thawed and killed everyone. It wasn't as scary as I thought it was going to be.

  7. Posted

    That's it's being debated shows that language hasn't changed, but it may be in the process of changing.

    On the contrary (:)), I'd say that the fact its being debated shows that language has already changed, for what are we talking about if not a change in language?

    It may not have changed so that everyone agrees on its usage, to be sure, but neither has the word "sick", which some people use to mean "good". The language has still changed, in that respect, even if people don't agree with it or like it.

    The form it is edging towards right now is one known as "dumb", because third-person and first-person are both useful terms with precise meanings.

    As I said though, Gears has more common (in terms of its twitch/strafe based gameplay) with FPSs than other TPSs. So in that respect I'd say the meaning has become less precise and therefore less useful. Just my opinion!

  9. Posted

    Exactly, this is what I meant by "handing down decrees" I wasn't implying you were making stuff up, I'm well aware of language theory, just that you were presenting these possible changes as fact which is absurd. I shot the messenger because I didn't like the delivery ;)

    At least you're admitting to shooting the messenger! :tup: (Appreciate it.)

    I should probably have mentioned that I've heard Gears referred to as an FPS outside of this discussion from different people in conversation months ago (when it first came out). So it doesn't surprise me in any way that people have now spotted others doing the same. (And yes, in my opinion, the people I spoke to where well aware what FPS stood for.)

    People I've spoken to + Other people hearing the same + Mainstream gaming press = Reasonable proof that language has evolved outside of one group of people

    It does frustrate me when I feel that people are thinking with their hearts and not their minds. I've worked in offices where people come out with the most dire nonsense, absolute garbage, but because it's said in a certain way, people go along with it. (I'm sure we've all been in that situation?)

    Considering I wasn't attacking anyone (at all), I don't think it should matter how strongly I put something across, provided it's correct... Isn't that fair?

    Also I think you are wrong in saying that it isn't because people are idiots, stupidity or ignorance is certainly one of the causes of such changes. People hear something said, don't actually understand it and so repeat it a little wrong or use it in the wrong circumstances.

    A great example is the phrase "I couldn't care less" which has morphed into "I could care less" in America. The second version doesn't make any sense looking at the words being used (yet is used in the exact same context) and clearly arose because people didn't understand what they were saying.

    "Clearly"? Now who's making drastic judgments, eh? :grin:

  10. Posted

    And referring to a non-first-person game as being so is not a mistake "plain and simple" . . . ?

    Well I guess you can argue that, but the fact that some people aren't bothered by it and can understand why its used seems to indicate that it's different (to me at least).

    What is a recent third-person shooter anyway (if Tomb Raider doesn't count?).

  11. Posted

    If one was to be a potential douche bag, he would note that a lot of people, and even the media, have sometimes referred to dolphins as fish.

    And while dolphins also play a lot more like fish than mammals, the meaning of the word "fish" can't be expanded to include the dolphins, as dolphins quite simply lack some of the characteristics that define fish and have all the characteristics that make them mammals.

    That's a mistake. Plain and simple. It's not been accepted as language (unlike "b-movie"). Nor is anyone, anywhere saying they can understand why some people would want to refer to dolphins as fish. Also, we're talking about the gaming press. I'm guessing the people who make the mistake of calling dolphins fish are not people who write about marine life frequently.

  12. Posted

    ThunderPeel you are being supremely arrogant about this, handing down decrees that language has changed. Personally I think it's stupid to call Gears an FPS, the term FPS exists to distinguish between perspectives in the shooting genre, what benefit is there to strip it of its meaning?

    Just because you are lazy enough to accept a bad classification doesn't mean everyone else has to be.

    Don't shoot the messenger! I'm not "handing down decrees" (what nonsense), but clearly explaining that since lots of people (including mainstream gaming press, as previously mentioned) are referring to Gears as a FPS, then clearly FPS has had its definition expanded by everyday usage.

    The fact that now, months later, some people are talking about it only goes to highlight how accepted this expanded usage has become.

    This isn't because people are idiots, it's because language does this all the time.

    For example, an "exploitation film" might not feature any actual exploitation at all, but instead, over time, the definition has expanded to include cheap, schlocky, violent films, usually made in the 70s.

    "B-movie" is another term which is frequently used in a "technically incorrect way" (we don't actually have double-features anymore, so no A-movies or B-movies) but is still used to describe a cheaply made/poorly produced movie.

    This is a fact and has nothing to do with me.

    Here, for the first time incidentally, is my actual opinion:

    Referring to Gears as a FPS is better than referring to it as a third-person shooter in all respects except technicality. Tomb Raider is a third-person shooter, but its gameplay is nothing like Gears of War. Whereas Quake and Team Fortress are FPSs and have gameplay that more closely resembles Gear of War.

    In short, to explain to someone what type of gaming experience Gears of War offers, describing it as a third-person shooter might technically be correct, but describing it as a FPS more accurately describes the gameplay... which is what labels like RPG, shoot-em-up, beat-em-up etc. were invented for in the first place.

    Finally, FPS and third-person shooters are genres, not formats (or was that a joke?).

  15. Posted

    "Clearly" according to who? And furthermore, "clearly" how exactly - "clearly" in the sense that everyone agrees? 'Cause if so, then that's clearly not true, seeing as I disagree.

    That's semantics for you!

    No, not "clearly" as in everyone agrees, as I was responding to someone who didn't agree. That's having common sense for you! :period:

  19. Posted

    Yes but... it's not an FPS. [sorely tempted to use the "disapproval cat" image again.] It's a very simple concept, let me summarise:

    First-Person Shooter = played in the first person perspective.

    Third-Person Shooter = played in the third person perspective.

    It's very black and white my friends. Control mechanics, game play feedback and immediacy and so forth are all very well and good; but you can't change the laws of the English language and its definitions just because something feels like something else.

    Sorry, but it's clearly moved on past its original definition to now define a style of gameplay. That's language for you!

  20. Posted

    Is avclub one of those sites that everyone reads and doesn't need to be linked to? I agree with every one of their reviews, and I love 'commentary tracks of the damned' and the 'savage love' advice column.

    Hmmm. Some of their reviews are WAY off the mark. Like The Lives of Others, for one, although I remember there being others.

  22. Posted

    Great list, I totally agree. At times in the past I've forgotten not to get involved on those forums... and my goodness, how they have sapped my energy and any positive feelings I have about the world, but then I remember: These people are total fuckwits... with no brains!

    I remember one YouTube video showing a severely disabled boy and his father. The boy was some DJ or some rapper or something, and he'd actually had a "big up" (or whatever) from some respected people in the industry. The video was a lovely heart-warming moment, but the comments told a different story:

    "I hope this fucking gay fag and his asshole father get fucking killed. Stupid fucking retard."

    Nice :tup:

  24. Posted

    Yeah, I enjoyed the ending, too. Glad I wasn't alone! I wish there'd been some credits on a black screen so I could have soaked up the atmosphere a bit more (rather than suddenly jumping to the main menu), but otherwise very nicely done.

    The game's weakest elements were definitely its scripting, though, despite the good bits.

    It's very hard to believe that Rapture was once a fully functioning city. Where are all the normal people? Did they ALL turn into "splicers" from "over splicing"?! The only people who were left were psychopathic lunatics. If they do a sequel, maybe we could find all these people hiding in another section of the city, and they could become more involved?

    Why was the city completely wrecked from only a year's worth of neglect?

    Still, the main bits were brilliant. It's just odd that the game-world, which was much more believable on a space ship - everyone's been killed and there's freaky mutants wandering the corridors - than in a massive city.

    The review I linked to really sums it up, IMO.

    I also wanted to really feel like playing it again afterwards. But I still don't.