ThunderPeel2001

Then don't engage in it...? I've only ever responded to people specifically telling me why I'm wrong, or to respond to clarification. I haven't taken apart other people's opinions unless they were directed specifically at me. I'm not sure there's a term for it yet. This would make perfect sense if people weren't actively trying to deconstruct my opinion -- apparently the "we" you refer to does give a shit. Yes, that appears to be you, doesn't it?

Hurrah! Thanks for coming up with a good example. "War" falls into the same category as Snakes and Ladders, I guess, which is to say, it's completely random as to who will win -- but even more so, because you don't even get to "try" and roll a six (or whatever). I'm not sure I'd consider "War" to be a game (and according to the Wikipedia article you linked to, I'm not alone in that), but I have to concede that it's often seen as a game. (A really shit game that only a child learning to count would play, presumably.) There ARE challenges in "War", though, as you can lose. The challenge is that your chosen half of a deck consistently has higher numbers than the other half. If it doesn't, you lose the hand, and so on, until you have no cards left -- So maybe I have to agree it IS a game, by my own definition. (Note: You seem to have confused "challenges" with "decisions" -- most games, certainly the most enjoyable ones, feature decisions, but not all.) You can't lose at TFoL, just like you can't lose when reading a novel. Still, "War" has definitely come closest to convincing me that I'm in a greyer area than I previously imagined... What a shitty "game" that is! (I've never heard of it myself -- no surprise, who the hell would want to play it, even as a kid?) Hmm.

So... One my clients is worried that users of their website won't be aware that they can scroll down. So much so, in fact, that they want a message to appear at the bottom of the browser window saying "Scroll down for more" if the mouse is near the bottom of the screen. Because, you know, most people aren't aware that websites tend to scroll downwards. #helpme

Yep. The Conservatives are using the "deficit panic" (nice term) to do what they've always wanted to do.

I thought Casino Royale was definitely keeping in the spirit of the first couple of James Bond movies, although I didn't love this latest one as much as everyone else. I have finally broken through my resistance to Community and, about five episodes from the end of the first season, fell in love with it. The way I see it (and the paintball episode is largely to do with it, I guess), it's the American version of Spaced. Yes, Community takes place in a different universe, but I'm learning to accept it for what it is, especially now Jeff isn't a total ass anymore. (Interestingly, I just watched an episode where they showed how important Pierce was to the group dynamic -- it'll be interesting if there's a fifth season!)

I love Windows 8 (I just consider the Start Screen to be one giant Start Menu -- no third party mods required ).

I guess part of my frustration is feeling like I'm going around in circles... with nobody apparently understanding what I'm saying. With Tetris (a game without an end), your goal is to stay "alive" for as long as possible (and get a huge highscore). The challenge is that there's falling blocks that, unless you clear them, will "kill" you. With a novel (NOT a game, in my books) your goal is to understand and reach the end of the story. The challenge is that you have to read the words in order from beginning to end to understand the story. You also have to understand the language is was written in, I guess. That's not much of a challenge to overcome, but novels aren't regarded as "games". I feel the same thing can be said about TFoL -- the goal is to reach the end of the story, but the challenge is to simply press forward (more or less). The only way I could not overcome this "challenge" is simply not to "play". As I said before: If someone could give me an example of a "traditional" game, one that nobody debates as being a game, (e.g Snakes and Ladders, Tag, Golf, etc.) that doesn't feature goals (and challenges needed to be overcome to reach those goals), I'd be convinced. Also, I'm not convinced by the "I played it, therefore it's a game argument": I can play a movie, I can play a musical instrument, I can play a CD. Edit: And... I'm sucked in again

Yes... sometimes.

Ok, I'm done here. This is rapidly turning into YET ANOTHER "me versus everyone else" bullying match. Just like with Microsoft's relationship with Blu-ray, I've expressed an opinion, someone has asked me to clarify, and then lots of people decide to join in and are apparently taking my opinion as a personal affront. In this particular case, I was responding to SiN's request for me to clarify. I've expressed what I (continue to believe) in the clearest terms I can (and in the case of this particular post, I've already answered every question -- apart from the one where I'm supposed to justify why someone should care about what I think... wtf? And unrelated questions about comics.)

I don't believe The Wire had a pilot... It was just commissioned. Also, it's an example of long-form television, so it's quite unique in that sense. BSG was a backdoor pilot, so a little different, but I definitely agree it wasn't the strongest opening. Pilots tend to have been crafted for months (sometimes years), whereas a typical episode of a show is broken in a week. I think it's hard for regular episodes to have the same level of crafting that a pilot has. (Consider Modern Family -- beautiful structure in the pilot episode that I don't think has ever been matched by another episode, no matter how great they might be.) I agree they can be hit and miss, though. Sometimes a show will evolve into something better than was originally imagined.

From a programming point of view, I've heard the PS3 was a royal pain.

Huh, interesting analogy. For me, Pilot episodes of TV shows are often the strongest. They're the ones that have had the most amount of work put in to them. It may take writers time to get to grips with the show itself, but pilots tend to be rock solid, IMO. (If you want to compare it to the first "proper" episode of a show, then I'd agree: That's the one where they have try and expand on what the pilot did.)

Some very interesting points! I'm still not convinced, though. Also, to clarify: I said this before, and I'll say it again, I'm not criticising TFoL, nor am I trying to "protect" games. There's no subtext at the core of my belief. I just don't think it's a game. I also don't think it's limiting anything to say it's not a game. It's just a word. I'm not detracting from it by saying it's something else. It's still something very interesting. If someone could give me an example of a "traditional" game, one that nobody debates as being a game, (e.g Snakes and Ladders, Tag, Golf, etc.) that doesn't feature goals (and challenges needed to be overcome to reach those goals), I'd be convinced. But I'm not sure why so many people WANT TFOL to be considered a game. Isn't putting it in the same category as Tetris somewhat selling it short?

True, but they're not... Apple.

I agree with this. I can't think of a single example of a game that doesn't feature some sort of goal, and some sort of challenge needed to be overcome to reach said goal. I went into more detail about this when I first brought it up, but since nobody can be bothered to go back and see, here it is again: and

Because Apple didn't make it...?

I found ATP to be more of the same when compared to Idoru. I did enjoy Pattern Recognition, though.

Look everybody! It's Mr Troll! Hi, Mr Troll!

What would the goal be in the shooting section, and how would not completing it hinder you reaching your ultimate goal (reach the end)? TFOL isn't a game in the same way a book isn't a game (unless it is). You just keep reading the words in the correct order until you reach the end. That's not a game. I've given pretty explicit examples that should answer any questions you have, so if you don't want to get too deep into it, I suggest going back and reading what I read when I first brought it up.

Absolutely. That's been the biggest shock so far (haven't played Episode 5 yet). That's probably the best example of how uneven the series has been -- it was almost like the two writing teams never discussed anything together. Not that it was a bad episode, but it was tonally very different, and if they'd all been little stand-alone crazy horror story of the week, I wouldn't have enjoyed the series as much. The best bits of the series for me have been getting to know the characters (even though the next writing team seems to be very happy to dispatch with new characters immediately) and learning more about the world.

All ended well: http://www.digitalsp...ke-picture.html

Haha! That's brilliant. I love the last line.

Hurrah! (Hey, I'm a huge Pixar fan and was just a little disappointed -- until I watched it, and I discovered I liked it.)

Hurrah for David Cameron!

Wow. There's a LOT of stuff to watch! Here's my contribution: Everytime I see it, I spot a new logo.