LostInTheMovies

The Diary does confirm this. I generally think of both Laura's diary & the Cooper book as "canon" except where explicitly contradicted by the show/film. In the Cooper book's case, this arises most notably Anyway, aside from all the intricate narrative connections, I would recommend the diary to anyone interested in pursuing the world of Twin Peaks offscreen. It offers a lot of insight into Laura Palmer as a character, beyond what everybody in town projects onto her, and provides a pretty good foundation for stuff that will come later. The book was written by Lynch's daughter, Jennifer, and is pretty much in tune with his sensibility (interestingly, the Cooper book was written by Frost's brother Scott). Not a big spoiler at all but Also, I know Chris and Jake don't like the Log Lady intros, but I think they are worth watching. Most are cryptic - and often frustrating - as all hell but if you have fun puzzling things out and digging into Lynch's general sensibility, they do make the diverse episodes feel more "of a piece": part of some larger story with a bigger meaning (Lynch shot the intros in 1993, after any ongoing Twin Peaks projects had been effectively mooted). Some of those intros, plus the recent Between Two Worlds interview in which Lynch interviews several actors from the series in character (including Laura Palmer), cast the conclusion of Fire Walk With Me in an interesting light. Overall, I think Twin Peaks has some of the most worthwhile, creative supplements of any media phenomenon out there.

He was into some heavy shit, that Jerry Stahl...

As far as the writing on this episode goes, there's a reason so many people receive credit. From Reflections: An Oral History of Twin Peaks, by Brad Dukes: "HARLEY PEYTON: I remember Jerry Stahl for all the obvious reasons that are probably in his memoir [Permanent Midnight] (which I haven't read, so I don't know his point of view). He was this weird, smart, sort of hipster guy who had worked on Alf which we all thought was sort of weird and we thought the perfect sort of person to write an episode of Twin Peaks. MARK FROST: I only hired him because my agent (I think it was Tony Krantz) pleaded with me to give this guy a job. From beginning to end it was an absolute car wreck. He was a mess, in the throes of addiction at the time and I discovered later he was shooting up in our restroom in the middle of meetings. He would take a bathroom break and go get high. He turned in a completely incomprehensible, unusable, incomplete script a few days late and as I recall there were blood stains on it. HARLEY PEYTON: He would be late, we would get mysterious phone calls, and then we couldn't find him. It was the only time in the history of the show where Mark Frost said, 'No, we're taking credit on this.' What was handed in was essentially so worthless that we sort of had to start from scratch. MARK FROST: Later, in his memoir he slammed me for mistreating him. I got as angry as I've ever been in my professional life when I read what this clown had to say about how he'd been mistreated while he was taking money for work he didn't honor and doing heroin in our bathroom." Jerry Stahl later stated (via Twitter when this passage came under discussion): "He's being too kind - he didn't mention the hair & brain matter. A little late, but all apologies, Mr. Frost"

Apparently, Todd Holland was the one who came up with the opening imagery and even The good news - for anyone who has access to the blu-ray anyway - is that the Holland interview is actually on the Entire Mystery set, as it was originally presented as a short video on the original season two collection. The audio commentary tracks were season one only (incidentally, I don't know why they couldn't just be presented as audio tracks on the blu-ray; that's actually how I listened to them and I didn't miss anything by not hearing them over the episodes themselves).

Very solid episode, and underrated. It is not as stylish as some of the others, but after some of the over-the-top flourishes of the previous episode (aside from the opening tour through the ceiling hole, which I love) that's not a bad thing. It also showcases Lara Flynn Boyle's best acting of the series. Donna can be a frustrating/elusive character and the fact that she's paired with James much of the time leads people to denigrate both the character and performance. But her work in the Harold scenes is fantastic - getting right to the heart of the whole Laura mystery vibe. The One-Eyed Jack's raid is also fun, if more in an action B-movie kinda way. I like the Steadicam work down the corridors. After the slight lag of last week's episode, we're on an uptick again. Next week's may be my favorite non-Lynch directed episode; it's certainly my favorite non-Lynch directed of season 2.

Not sure if you're receiving updates (I shared this on dugpa.com too) but Christy Desmet's essay "The Canonization of Laura Palmer" has a really fascinating analysis of the two Venuses (spoilers in the link, obviously): https://books.google.com/books?id=m6mjuWXrqb8C&pg=PA97&lpg=PA97&dq=martyrdom+of+laura+palmer&source=bl&ots=0HBrFWP9in&sig=rIxpr7fBBw3wSDhQs8SVOybzW0k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xFGsVKCaObeSsQTTuoDYCg&ved=0CDUQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=venus&f=false (see the first sample, page 106).

Yeah, Hank is an interesting character. For some reason, even though he appears relatively early in season one, I often don't think of him as a "true" "core" Twin Peaks character like the ones introducing in the pilot although I don't have this issue with Albert or Maddy, who are introduced one episode earlier. Maybe because his storyline is somewhat tangential to the main mystery arc? That said, I've always really liked him or perhaps more accurately, Chris Mulkey's slimy performance. What's remarkable is that he doesn't play the "trying to be nice" bits in the usual TV way of winking at the audience, to let them know he's just conning Norma. We know because we're privy to information Norma isn't, but we can also see how should could be fooled (while still deeply suspicious). Very chilling character in that regard. Another thing with this episode, which I guess should be in spoiler tags although it's nothing big:

It is truly bizarre and I wonder too. I also wonder if the actors were told what was even really going on since the big previous episodes hadn't aired yet. Also, WHAT a wasted dramatic opportunity, especially for that particular character!

She definitely has a "season 1 Maddy" vibe about her.

After I shared the above video on another site, someone ripped it and posted it to YouTube for more convenient viewing:

It's a good point and I'm of two minds on the way that storyline went. On the one hand

What a great way of putting it. I've often described it as I agree it's tough "prepping" people for Fire Walk With Me - and, in that sense, for Twin Peaks in general. I'll save the rest of this discussion for spoiler tags, but I'll concur that people who are particularly sensitive to really harsh material should be forewarned. Yes, it aired on prime-time in the early nineties. Don't let that fool you - I have no idea how some stuff got past the censors though I'm glad it did. Anyway...

Well since FWWM is the topic of conversation on many of these threads, I'll share a video I just uploaded a few minutes ago. It provides context and analysis for the film's controversial relationship to the series. It should go without saying, but DO NOT WATCH THIS if you are a newcomer to the series. That said, if you haven't seen Fire Walk With Me, but have made it halfway through the series (I mean exactly halfway, 15-16 episodes in) you can watch it. Fire Walk With Me does reference the final episode of the show, but those references are not featured in my video. I do include some clips from late in the series, but nothing particularly important, plotwise (except for some dialogue from episode 16/17 that elaborates on something we discover in episode 14/15). In spoiler tags, because of the image YouTube chose as a thumbnail (I updated it, but for some reason the embed still includes it).

I think the first time I saw this episode, I really liked it - mostly because I found it very visually interesting. (The opening shot had me fooled it was Lynch directing until the credit came up for...Todd Holland?!?) The whole scene with Leland is great, from the trip through the ceiling hole to his tearful confession, which I think is Ray Wise's best piece of acting so far. That said, though, the rest of this episode feels very filler-ish and now I think it's probably the weakest of the series up to this point. What do people think of Judge Sternwood? My sense is that Cooper SHOULD click with him but doesn't quite. I have some theories on why but the general feeling is that maybe Cooper is beginning to have doubts about the folksy appeal of this corner of the world. His response to Doc Hayward in the second scene is unusually sharp. The M.T. Wentz dialogue with the concierge and the fight at the end both make this episode feel very TV-ish which is an odd point to make about a TV show, but usually Twin Peaks doesn't feel that way. Agreed that the Audrey storyline feels drawn out. Which is odd considering it's only lasted for a few days so far. The big problem for me is that it makes the dynamic character way too passive. I like the storm passing over, gives the episode a nice, semi-unified feel especially since it's somewhat scattershot in plot.

I think there are much better (worse?) places to go for bizarre 90s cheese, and I don't think that's what most people are into Twin Peaks for.

Whoops, posted a link earlier that didn't work. I'll try again. Just discovered a video from 1990, in which Mark Frost discusses Twin Peaks with journalists, critics, and authors. It's longer and rougher-around-the-edges than the video I posted before (it's a local public program rather than a national broadcast) but goes way more in-depth. The participants discuss several points germane to both this forum and Chris' and Jake's discussion on the podcast including the depiction of women on the show. I find Judith Guest's comments at 48:45 (discussing good and evil on the show) to be particularly on-point. Here is a direct link: http://www.mnvideovault.org/index.php?id=16577&select_index=0&popup=yes#0. That's a pop-up video so if it doesn't work, you can watch the video embedded on this site: http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/news/inside-twin-peaks-mark-frost/ The program was recorded immediately after this episode, so no spoilers for newcomers.

True - and I forgot to mention how well this ties into the discussion Chris & Jake had on the show. h/t Welcome to Twin Peaks (http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/news/inside-twin-peaks-mark-frost/); so glad I stumbled across this last night. EDIT: Just realized your original comment was probably already referencing the podcast, rather than the program I linked above (especially since that link didn't actually work; I fixed it below). Either way, applies to both.

Enjoyed reading these responses. Ha, my bad. I misremembered that information as arriving in the very next episode. As for the mill plot, I've seen the series 4 or 5 times (and this particular episode at least once on its own) and I STILL tend to get lost on the third or fourth double-cross...

Great discussion, guys - I think this was my favorite Rewatch episode yet. You touched on a lot of interesting topics. A few thoughts: - On the letter-writer's topic, it seems that since the show aired (and, earlier, with Blue Velvet) there have been some in-depth and sometimes intense discussions of Lynch's treatment of/attitude toward women. In particular, there was a Ms. article early in season two that was very critical of the lack of agency (among other things). Later the author wrote an extended essay that was even harsher on the show. There's a tendency to treat Lynch's work as a single entity but personally, I think there's a pretty clear division in Lynch's career, after which female characters become increasingly complex protagonists and subjects. And the turning point is definitely Twin Peaks although Wild at Heart (made at the same time) has some indications of this direction too. - On a similar note, the letter-writer mentioned the question of what is "Lynchian" and where Twin Peaks fits in ouevre. Don't know if he or she reads these forums but I attempted to tackle that question in an essay this spring after watching all of Lynch's work: http://thedancingimage.blogspot.com/2014/06/its-strange-world-david-lynch.html. - Re: David Foster Wallace, I also recommend that piece. Very, very long but a really absorbing read (the anecdote about Balthazar Getty is alone worth the price of admission). I actually disagree with many of Wallace's opinions of Lynch but he's right-on about Fire Walk With Me, Laura Palmer, their importance to Lynch, and why critics reacted so negatively to the show and the film. - - - The mentions of Windom Earle and the strange Asian gentlemen are interesting because Lynch handles them really well (of course) - there is an ominous air to both references. Yet something does feel a little "off" because we're starting to get a sense of Twin Peaks being a show beyond "Who Killed Laura Palmer?" (even stuff like the mill burning felt interconnected). - Happy holidays - I look forward to the next episode either next week or in the new year.

Just listening to the episode now and paused it to say I LOVE the discussion you guys have about Lynch's aesthetic. I've been reading a lot about him and his films this year, but I don't think I've come across anything (yet) specifically addressing what you're talking about. I agree completely about the almost stubbornly cheesy compositing - Lost Highway has shots like that too. The individual elements are interesting to Lynch but he does not care if they blend seamlessly; in fact, as you say, he'd rather they didn't. I think maybe that strikes him as more false than allowing the post-production work to be blatant. I also think this ties in deeply to his paintings, which are often purposefully crude yet heavily textured. Here's a good article with lots of representative works: http://redroompodcast.com/tag/art-of-david-lynch/ Personally I like this a lot because I feel CGI often has an annoyingly unreal feel to it when it's trying too hard to be "realistic" (it never quite convinces me). I prefer when it's used in an artificial but eye-catching way. Not that most of Lynch's effects are/were CGI, but I think it's the same principle in play.

I like this one quite a bit though it's admittedly a downturn after the two Lynch-directed ones. But Lesli Linka Glatter is probably the best non-Lynch director of the bunch and the One-Armed Man scenes are fantastically creepy. Wait till she gets to direct him again, in an upcoming episode - without spoiling anything, I can say it is the best non-Lynch moment of the show. Well, sort of non-Lynch...you'll see.

Lynch loves those wide lenses! Especially as the series progresses, every time he sits in the director's chair you can tell right away by how wide and slightly distorted our perspective is (among other Lynch clues).

Yeah, this was a big issue with the blus. There's are whole threads devoted to this on several sites (machine fixes, etc); apparently a few of the Missing Pieces are a bit out of sync too. Personally, I don't recall an issue with ep. 9 but did notice a little during one of the Pieces; it was distracting when I saw it but slight and not worth returning the blu-ray for, I thought. Apparently CBS never addressed the issue.

She's definitely frustrating at times, and can seem inconsistent as well. FWWM Donna seems like a more straightforward character, although what works for a film wouldn't necessarily work for a show. I'm ultimately happy with both characterizations and also