Turgid

Don't forget the random arm/hand tremors of various people around Twin Peaks in the lead up to the finale and the opening of the doorway.

Alright I haven't listened to the episode yet and I skipped most of this thread, just want to put my impressions down first. Apologies if I repeat things already discussed: This movie was way more disturbing and gross than anything in Twin Peaks, even the finale. I knew it would be different, but damn, what an explicit depiction of abuse and mental illness, and self-destructive behavior. One of the few films I've seen that took me beyond intellectual and emotional understanding and into visceral disgust. It was an effective film! So effective I don't think I'd watch it again. I found myself simultaneously disgusted by Laura's behavior and yet understanding and pitying her. All the drug use, the indiscriminate sex with multiple partners, the destructive and extreme situations she put herself in...I was actually angry. This was surprising since I don't think of myself as a judgmental person. In fact I'm all for positive sexual or drug experiences, but these were clearly something else. Then it showed those godawful bedroom and dining room scenes and you could see the terror and absolute destruction on her face. I think the dining room scenes were actually slightly worse to watch, the way Laura looked at her father across the table. Devastating. So I completely understood how she was trying to escape (as in escapism), and she was repeating her trauma compulsively, yet I still felt angry at her for it. As well as for failing to get actual help or take effective steps to escape for real. In effect I wanted to shout at her for feeling guilty and feeling that she doesn't deserve love or happiness, though obviously that was hardly in her control. I've seen y'all mention that this movie shows Leland has more responsibility for what he does, but I still didn't see it. To me it looks like he's just a puppet of Bob, and whenever given the chance he tries to apologize for Bob's actions. Although it's an interesting theory that Leland is in control at the dinner table scenes, I just didn't see any evidence for it really. Isn't Bob capable of subtlety sometimes? The other thing you'd have to explain is why Leland is sometimes apologizing/crying and sometimes relentlessly domineering. It just seems easier for me to accept that Bob is capable of two modes than Leland being at once sincerely caring and yet abusive. Especially given that Bob's whole narrative purpose in the show is to explain the evil in Twin Peaks including Leland's crimes. However going back to the Arbitrary Law thread, especially this initial post by Argobot, all of that goes out the window if I imagine Bob as a defensive projection by Laura, and Leland is just a human being. Leland's actions are completely believable as the result of abuse and denial, or mental illness, or even just a disgusting person. As Argobot puts it later in that thread: I'm actually glad the movie still had some supernatural elements, because the real-world truth of abuse is so horrific to contemplate, let alone see depicted. I'm not sure I could have continued watching. --- Something I don't quite understand is Donna. Why does she follow Laura to the bar and join her? At first I thought she was going to try to get Laura out of there. When she went for the kiss I thought maybe she's trying to reflect Laura's actions back at her so she sees how messed up it is. But going to the club and downing those drugs seems beyond what Donna would do in that case. So is it really intended that Donna was just trying to participate in Laura's life, as a peer pressure sort of thing, and got in over her head? I suppose this plays into Laura's supernatural attractiveness. By the way, interesting tidbit from Twin Peaks Explained regarding the David Bowie scene:

Kickstarter just promoted this project in their newsletter: a documentary about a Twin Peaks superfan who grew up in the town of filming (Snoqualmie, I guess?). Looks like he got way too into the show and the Laura Palmer character specifically, as a way of escaping an abusive situation. Like to the point of doing drugs because Laura Palmer did. http://kck.st/1GUyZCY

You can play it with ASCII graphics for free, here: http://miki151.itch.io/keeperrl I'm also very interested but haven't tried it yet. Dwarf Fortress burned me out on in-development buildy games. Areanynamesnottaken, great post. I largely agree. I think there's some parallels in board games, since gameplay is transparent by necessity. (Although many board games are still flawed, and people still buy and play them for other reasons anyway.) I think the ability to play games before investing in them with cash, or in the case of most roguelikes not even asking for cash, helps keep the focus on playability.

My impression of Cooper's entrance also had him being desaturated in a couple places, so I knew exactly what Chris meant. But on review, it seems those moments are the main light fading out, leaving only strobe lights to illuminate his face. During the close ups when he's staring at the singer, the transition from orange light to only strobe lights happens a few times.

Well, even a terrible roguelike that you don't like, or one that doesn't include certain features you want, might nonetheless fit most people's definition. More useful to simply say what you don't like without trying to insult people's tastes. I'll watch out for that one flaw you mentioned when I try it out, though. As for Incursion's interface, yeah "intuitive" might be overstating it. Rather, I found it easier to learn and use than NetHack's or Stone Soup's.

So after listening, I didn't realize until you guys mentioned all that Lodge lore, but I was expecting more resolution or explanation of the Black Lodge and map and cave. The show seemed to focus so much on that stuff and yet last episode didn't resolve any of it. After this episode I forgot until just now that we still don't have any idea who made the cave map, or the sycamore circle, or even why Earle wanted to take a woman with him. (Recall that while it was conveniently vengeful to take Annie, initially he planned to take whoever happened to win Miss Twin Peaks.) Not that I particularly care, but still weird that it was completely ignored in favor of "twelve fish = king arthur = ghostwood." (Oh and by the way why the hell does Earle say "twelve fish" why did he care, did he go around looking for a vehicle to steal with twelve things in it oh forget it.) Ben Horne: Jake you mentioned he looked up surprised, but he seems at least unconscious to me, although maybe moving slightly. And judging by the Doc's reaction he thinks he might have accidentally killed him. What an intense scene. Really excited for Fire Walk With Me!

If anyone's not familiar, also mentioned in the show but missed in the show notes was Tales of Maj'Eyal (free on the site, but also available on Steam for a "donation"), aka ToME, aka Tales of Middle Earth. I loved the discussion towards the end about those stupid gotcha moments in NetHack, e.g. falling through a pit trap 3 steps from the entrance, thus putting you 5 levels deep with starting equipment and half health. But also those less stupid instances where a dangerous situation develops and you have to consider running. I think it can be frustrating in story-based games when not accepting a quest means you simply miss out on content, or in the FTL example, literally nothing happens if you don't confront those spiders. Boring. The real question they seem to be asking is "do you want to see this part of the story?" Anyone would be stupid not to say yes to that. In a roguelike, at least the expectation is set that the outcomes are more systems-based and high stakes, rather than "mash A button to reveal predetermined story." My personal favorite Roguelike is Incursion, which is deliberately and specifically designed to be "forgiving" in the sense that a single mistake will not doom you, but every death is the result of several mistakes building on each other. And it lives up to this, most of the time. It also aspires to let you review in your mind the decisions leading up to that situation and what you might have done differently, so you get that feedback and learning. (No "gotcha" moments or "Do It Again, Stupid" gameplay). Also the interface is intuitive and informative, though still keyboard based, and the graphics are lush by text-based standards. Unfortunately the original developer gave up on it, but recently released it for community development so it is being maintained again. Highly recommended. http://www.incursion-roguelike.net/

I usually try to wait til the Rewatch episode is out, but while I'm waiting... I wasn't completely clear on Nadine's scene. Was she finally snapping out of it with full memories of everything that happened, hence the horror? Or was she simply reacting to some random guy being in her house that she didn't know, plus Norma? The only way it really works for me is if she has at least some realization of what happened, although it was a great moment of acting either way. I agree the investigation stuff was worthless. But, the Black Lodge was freaking unsettling, especially Sheryl Lee screeching like a banshee, dear god. Actually that reverse wink creeped me out more. I am somewhat disappointed with the Cooper reveal, as it seemed a bit cheap and an unsatisfying end for our beloved agent. I suppose the real one is still trapped in the Black Lodge? (Come to think of it, does this imply that Leland was a doppelganger too, and the Leland we saw this episode was the original one? Or even Laura?) Other minor point: I was glad to see a bunch of forgotten characters come back, including Sarah Palmer. But what was she trying to do with Major Briggs? His reaction wasn't clear to me when she starts speaking as Bob or whoever. Overall, very happy to have real things to discuss and questions to ask again. Maybe not worth all the hours of mediocrity, but oh well here we are.

Excellent. Also it's too close to be a coincidence IMO.

God I love board games for exactly this kind of mechanic. It's not exactly rare that a game manages to match theme and mechanic so perfectly, but a lot of games don't seem to care about it, and it is so satisfying to experience. Kind of the board game equivalent of "ludonarrative dissonance." (Or rather it's opposite, "ludonarrative assonance?") In the 'cast you guys almost got there, but not quite, to the concept of interactive systems (be they digital or otherwise) as simulations to explore real world concepts and systems. Games can be a great way to gain intuitive understanding of complicated systems, by letting you explore different strategies to accomplish something, or just to mess around and see what happens. I saw a great video of a talk somewhere explaining how interactive mediums could be used for this purpose and just how powerful they would be, but can't remember who or where it was. Maybe a TED talk? The guy went beyond digital flat displays, and beyond VR/AR displays, but using nanobots to create a physical interactive medium for that purpose. Wish I could find that video again.

The best image of Spaff: I'd love a picture of that robot fish if it can be found.

Spoilered for space, though obviously not for content since I've never seen the show before:

http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/975uq6/prince-of-persia-on-nbc-s-life I really enjoyed that show, but goddamn that scene was painfully bad. Worse than the Big Bang Theory in terms of nerd hate and video game stupidity. If it's "a hard drive with games on it" why didn't they show the techie take out the HD, access it with his desktop in two seconds, done. Even with some stupid made up GUI it's better than faking the video game stuff. Here's a great breakdown of all the terrible stuff in this 3 minute scene. http://www.themarysue.com/nbc-life-prince-of-persia/ Edit: Tomato Robot

The futureunfolding.com/peaks site gives a strange 404: "The web app you have attempted to reach is not available in this Microsoft Azure App Service region." Anyway I'm still hanging in there. Glad to see this episode was watchable, aside from the Earle b.s. which still had me cringing. The population of 5000 seems about right to me, if you imagine Twin Peaks has a lot of tourists which it evidently does. Another blessing of the Pie God? That explains the huge hotel and department store, and maybe the hospital serves the area.

Thanks, that's exactly what I came here for! Very interesting 'cast, glad to hear from Spaff this episode. Also, Westerado reminds me aesthetically of Messhof's Cowboyana, which also has that thing where you individually reload your revolver. http://www.messhof.com/Cowboyana

That big literal wall of text in the Neverhood is a parody of the Bible, especially the creation story parts. It plays into the themes of free will and the nature of good and evil covered elsewhere in the game. It does have some interesting stories in there, the best of which is the adventures of Willie Trombone and Bill the robot, which appear later. But some of it just fills in some backstory about Hoborg and clay, and some of it is completely irrelevant. The sheer length of it is just a gag. A very annoying gag. Yeah I read most of it, back when I had way too much time on my hands as a kid. I loved that game. (By the way, the same people that made the Neverhood kickstarted a new game called Armikrog which is in development now, with similar gameplay and visual style. Too bad Doug TenNapel is some kind of homophobic jerk.)

I think it's extremely unfair to say Soren doesn't respect his customers because he gives them the opportunity to buy into early access. Nobody has to buy the game. People know what they're getting with Early Access. There's nothing dishonest or disrespectful about it at all. (That is, in principle. Certain developers might not follow through on promises, which admittedly one has to take into account when considering a purchase...) For competitive games, playtesting and lots of it is required for balancing and development of the different factions. The more players the better, and the more committed they are the better. The only way to make sure the game is competitively interesting is to have a bunch of people break it over and over by becoming very skilled at it and finding great strategies. (This might superficially sound like QA, but the competitive aspect takes it beyond functional considerations into the realm of design.) I think this was the point Soren was trying to emphasize. The merits of *Steam* Early Access in achieving that kind of serious play, and how applicable it is to other types of games, can certainly be debated. But I 100% agree that for competitive strategy games, a huge amount of dedicated playtesting is crucial to developing a playable game, let alone a good one. And personally I don't have a problem if developers want to charge for access to what can be a fun and challenging process. If it funds the game's development as well, so much the better. Sounds like a win-win for the customer and developer, which many people choose to accept. Of course, you are free to reject the offer.

I can't seem to find a "toblogs" or "T O Blogs" on Youtube. Hook me up? I'm extremely interested in road designs for Cities, since I can't seem to get them to work like they do in my actual city. Specifically, people on major streets have priority, and turning from a tiny residential street onto a major street you have to wait for an opening. There are no lights for every little residential street, and you can't cross the median to turn left (in most cases). That's accomplished by turning right onto the major street, then making a u-turn at an intersection or median cut-out. In Cities, making my "major streets" into parallel one-way streets almost does the trick, except when traffic backs up, people on the major street will wait for the "intersection" to clear before proceeding. Whereas in real life there is no virtual intersection so you just go. The fact that a tiny street exits onto the major road should be inconsequential to the major road traffic...maybe I should use highways or highway ramps instead? That would look all wrong though.

My understanding is that Caroline witnessed her husband's crime somehow, but didn't I.D. him specifically. She was taken into protective custody and Earle and Cooper were assigned to her (probably at the request of Earle, and probably against FBI rules). During that, Cooper fell in love with Caroline. I don't know to what extent he expressed this to her or Earle, possibly he didn't at all. Conjecture: Earle killed her but spared Cooper for whatever insane reason. Earle went insane before the original crime, but from Cooper's perspective it wasn't until after Caroline's death since Earle hid it before then. Alternatively, Earle was always a murderous psychopath and simply faked his insanity to avoid suspicion that he killed his wife. Or some damn plot like that, honestly I can't be bothered to go back and check what Cooper said. I'm still watching this show, but for a few episodes now it's been pretty boring. I want to see Audrey do something again.

I figure people might want to look these up, like me: Golden Girls theme Matlock theme

I agree with y'all about the use of inappropriate themes to match cool mechanics. It can feel bad and almost exploitative. Although on the other hand, I'm not sure I want to require designers to only make games about things they've experienced. Like any representation, it can be done respectfully and thoughtfully, I suppose. I give this episode six thumbs up.

Regarding the confusion over Ben Horne losing One-Eyed Jack's, I take it to mean the illegal business run from there. Ben Horne still owns the property, but Renault is taking over his drug smuggling (and prostitution?) business. Ben doesn't have any way to stop him at this point, without basically admitting his own involvement. Owning the property doesn't mean anything.

I haven't got it yet but I've been watching Offworld Trading Company on the Mohawk youtube channel and it looks amazing! Can't wait to hear the discussion. Here's some video of Soren Johnson showing the basics:

Presumably it's been covered up, and Gerard probably just wants to get on with his life rather than sue or complain to the FBI. Everyone who knows about it is willing to give Cooper a pass given the circumstances, I suppose. In a way Cooper dodged a bullet (hah) with Leland's death, since it would be mighty hard to explain the whole mess at trial. But yes it was incredibly ethically reprehensible and illegal, and I'd imagine against Bureau policy to boot (haha).