Jake

Idle Thumbs 201: Adults Only

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Cara is one of my secret internet crushes, so having her guest star on my secret internet crush podcast is amazing! Great episode.

 

I got the pun of s.exe but I didn't know how to say it out loud. Master.bat is excellent.

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This Ian Bogost (in the shell) article about Sim City is rather timely.

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/03/video-games-are-better-without-characters/387556/

 

I quite enjoyed this article and agree with a lot of his points, but slight condescension toward narrative games is annoying. I'm also not sure that systems-based games vs. character-based games is as neat a dichotomy as he'd like; it allows him to conveniently ignore games like Cart Life and Papers, Please, which seem to model that "cog-in-the-machine" feeling that he wants better than a game like SimCity. Also, and I've encountered this in other writings of his, he's got blinders that focus on video games solely, to the exclusion of tabletop games. I think any discussion of systems-based game design needs to include tabletop to be instructive.

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Regarding people only playing a single game, the fighting game community is very much like that. Many of them play fighting games and that's it. Before I realized this, I was once out at a local fighting game gathering and I was using my custom Portal-themed arcade stick (picture) and one guy asked me what the theme was. I looked at him strangely and said "Portal" in such a way that probably indiciated I was confused by his question. He responded, "What's that?" Then I just said, "A video game," and that was the end of the interaction. It just blew my mind that someone playing a video game wouldn't know what Portal was.

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People who play one type of game have the most potential for really fascinating me (though the biggest chance of not). As an example, one of my older brothers - who is very much an outdoorsman in every respect - has secretly played video games all these years without mentioning it to me. The last time I saw him play video games was when the Nintendo was new, just to give a perspective on time. When I first moved here I discovered he has a 360 and has been keeping up with game news enough to be critical of Microsoft's earliest XB1 decisions / announcements. But the games he plays? Pretty much anything AAA is what he knows. He looks down on stuff we all used to play together as being 'for kids,' which isn't new to anyone using the internet on a regular basis, but hearing that in real life and the personality it comes from kinda blows my mind. His inner-nerd is intact when it comes to film and television. But for some reason for video games he felt he had to 'grow up.' Red Dead Redemption is his Citizen Kane of video games, in that it's his Clint Eastwood western of games.

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Pretty much anything AAA is what he knows. He looks down on stuff we all used to play together as being 'for kids,' which isn't new to anyone using the internet on a regular basis, but hearing that in real life and the personality it comes from kinda blows my mind.

 

That's funny, I have the opposite experience. For me, up until recently, it was the internet where all the people that play Portal and stuff were.

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I look forward to this podcast every week because everyone on the cast love to build conversations, always accepting, and always keeping things moving.

 

Not too long after I started listening to podcasts, I noticed a few of them using the phrase 'yes-and' as a verb - they used it in Idle Thumbs #197 with Justin McElroy during the advertising segment for the chocolate-coated strawberries - and I learned not long after that the principle of responding to any joke setup with 'yes, and-' is a foundational element of improv comedy.  Not surprisingly, many of the podcasts I enjoy listening to most are hosted by people who have some kind of comedy or stage background where they've been explicitly taught to keep a conversation moving with yes-and. (And the podcasts I wind up losing interest in immediately are produced by pedantic computer nerds who have that awful one-upmanship habit of shutting down other people with 'well-actually')

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Not too long after I started listening to podcasts, I noticed a few of them using the phrase 'yes-and' as a verb - they used it in Idle Thumbs #197 with Justin McElroy during the advertising segment for the chocolate-coated strawberries - and I learned not long after that the principle of responding to any joke setup with 'yes, and-' is a foundational element of improv comedy.  Not surprisingly, many of the podcasts I enjoy listening to most are hosted by people who have some kind of comedy or stage background where they've been explicitly taught to keep a conversation moving with yes-and. (And the podcasts I wind up losing interest in immediately are produced by pedantic computer nerds who have that awful one-upmanship habit of shutting down other people with 'well-actually')

 

Cool coincidence: Jake retweeted an article today about how "pedantic computer nerds" use more aggressive conversation style and how that's toxic for workplace environments. The article specifically talks about the "yes and" rule from improv. https://www.kateheddleston.com/blog/argument-cultures-and-unregulated-aggression (Actually Jake linked the first article in that series but this one is more directly related)

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That is exactly the thing that I like about the conversation on Idle Thumbs. When a group of people know each other well enough, you stop even hearing the verbal agreement, it just comes about naturally. Nothing makes me sadder than listening to people who are trying really hard to sound cool and funny to the point where their negativity halts any creativity. My favorite parts of Idle Thumbs are where they take an idea and just run with it, ping-ponging back and forth and exploring. Nobody ever says, "that's dumb," nobody ever pauses and deflates everything with an "...ummm, ooooookaaaaaaay." It's all yes, and, and it makes it feel like you're listening to some fun, cool people you want to be friends with. 

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Cool coincidence: Jake retweeted an article today about how "pedantic computer nerds" use more aggressive conversation style and how that's toxic for workplace environments. The article specifically talks about the "yes and" rule from improv. https://www.kateheddleston.com/blog/argument-cultures-and-unregulated-aggression (Actually Jake linked the first article in that series but this one is more directly related)

That article is ridiculous. I think it's being approached as if arguments were exclusively about winning or losing as their sole purpose in humanity but often I've found in life exhaustive arguments are just there to try to understand. If someone feels like they won something after the end of an argument then it's pretty insignificant, unless it's your court case but whatever.

 

Arguments have a way more complicated place in human lives than just some kind of battle. Even solely at the workplace which this seems to only refer to.

 

Also why have pictures in that article? If the picture of a deflated football just looks like a bad drawing of a regular football, maybe it's better not to have pictures at all.

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Not too long after I started listening to podcasts, I noticed a few of them using the phrase 'yes-and' as a verb - they used it in Idle Thumbs #197 with Justin McElroy during the advertising segment for the chocolate-coated strawberries - and I learned not long after that the principle of responding to any joke setup with 'yes, and-' is a foundational element of improv comedy.  Not surprisingly, many of the podcasts I enjoy listening to most are hosted by people who have some kind of comedy or stage background where they've been explicitly taught to keep a conversation moving with yes-and. (And the podcasts I wind up losing interest in immediately are produced by pedantic computer nerds who have that awful one-upmanship habit of shutting down other people with 'well-actually')

 

 

That is exactly the thing that I like about the conversation on Idle Thumbs. When a group of people know each other well enough, you stop even hearing the verbal agreement, it just comes about naturally. Nothing makes me sadder than listening to people who are trying really hard to sound cool and funny to the point where their negativity halts any creativity. My favorite parts of Idle Thumbs are where they take an idea and just run with it, ping-ponging back and forth and exploring. Nobody ever says, "that's dumb," nobody ever pauses and deflates everything with an "...ummm, ooooookaaaaaaay." It's all yes, and, and it makes it feel like you're listening to some fun, cool people you want to be friends with. 

 

 

The big big big "EXCEPT" here is if Nick Breckon is on. Then all bets are off.

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The big big big "EXCEPT" here is if Nick Breckon is on. Then all bets are off.

 

Haha I thought the same thing.  Though usually the thing Nick says "that's dumb" about is the sentence he said immediately before.

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Arguments have a way more complicated place in human lives than just some kind of battle. Even solely at the workplace which this seems to only refer to.

Conflict definitely has value in life, as long as it results in a resolution and isn't perpetual. Acting like arguments are to be avoided at all costs is unhealthy as fuck - it increases the intensity of boil-overs.

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The article is talking about arguments as the default way to resolve a problem/arrive at a solution/communicate, and it IS incredibly common in the dorkier white collar jobs, and it IS tiring as fuck. Arguments have a place, but in a culture where they are almost the default mode of communication, it CAN BE exhausting and exclusionary.

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That article is ridiculous. I think it's being approached as if arguments were exclusively about winning or losing as their sole purpose in humanity but often I've found in life exhaustive arguments are just there to try to understand. If someone feels like they won something after the end of an argument then it's pretty insignificant, unless it's your court case but whatever.

 

Arguments have a way more complicated place in human lives than just some kind of battle. Even solely at the workplace which this seems to only refer to.

 

Also why have pictures in that article? If the picture of a deflated football just looks like a bad drawing of a regular football, maybe it's better not to have pictures at all.

I can't tell if you're sarcastically arguing to prove the article's point or if you actually mean everything you are saying here.

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Long time listerner, first time poster, just though I'd chime in with the other folks to send in high praise to Cara as a guest.  I'd love her to be a regular guest or hell have her own show.  

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Question is, if Cara did a show on the Idle Thumbs Network (or ITN if you're hip) what pun-driven name would it be called?

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Cara On Gaming

 

(good because she's British, bad because it's a pun on a bawdy film franchise, rather than gaming or Thumbs)

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I can't tell if you're sarcastically arguing to prove the article's point or if you actually mean everything you are saying here.

I'm just stating what I think, it's not an argument without both parties engaging. it's not a binary. And no, I'm not gonna bother (just like the vegan thread) so I won't bite at your insult.

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Cara is the best, and she gets to snoop in scoop's house and talk about poop. Also was I the only one who caught Danielle's 'patch number 2' pun? That at least deserved a groan, the lack of response is egregious and unforgivable.

Otherwise, great pod and congrats on >200 of them!

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I've been a fan of Cara for a while now, and having her on was amazing. It especially made me realise how much I enjoy hearing a more European perspective on things being articulated to the US thumbs, because it's so often the things I wish I could pop in to say. That's not meant as a criticism but more that Cara is a soothing balm for a persistent itch I didn't realise was bothering me. More please!

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