Jake

Idle Thumbs 198: Missing Molyneux

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It's worth bearing in mind that Stardock is principally a business software company. Strategy games are more of a passion project rather than their bread & butter. I think declining to buy OTC out of a dislike of Brad Wardell probably has a more negative impact on Soren than it does on Brad as a result. While I agree that Brad comes off as a fairly toxic individual, I'm not sure I agree that this is the hill on which to pick this battle.

 

edit: Apologies for the battle metaphor, I've got Ultimate General Gettysburg on my mind at the moment!

 

I agree with this. I think voting with your wallet is a perfectly fine thing to do as a customer. But in this case, if someone wants to play OTC, wants to support Soren, thinks Soren is cool and deserves some more success, there's ethical room in here to go ahead and buy it. If someone concludes they don't want to buy it, that's fine as well. But I don't think Wardell's involvement has to be a death knell if someone has decided not to buy more Stardock stuff.

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I agree with this. I think voting with your wallet is a perfectly fine thing to do as a customer. But in this case, if someone wants to play OTC, wants to support Soren, thinks Soren is cool and deserves some more success, there's ethical room in here to go ahead and buy it. If someone concludes they don't want to buy it, that's fine as well. But I don't think Wardell's involvement has to be a death knell if someone has decided not to buy more Stardock stuff.

Can it not also be a message to people in Soren's position to not do business with the likes of Wardell?

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It could, but the problem with voting with your wallet is that it only says one thing: "I don't want this." If Offworld doesn't sell well, it would be tough for Mohawk to know whether it's because the game was too strange, poorly marketed, ill conceived or if people don't want to support Brad Wardell. Voting with your wallet says you don't want to buy something, but it doesn't say why.

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Can it not also be a message to people in Soren's position to not do business with the likes of Wardell?

Eh, how long ago was Mohawk founded? Just answered my own question, it was announced as a company in November of 2013. Did I think Wardell was an asshat by then. Yes. Would I begrudge someone going into business with him if that is what they needed to get a project off the ground? No. I've run my own business for 10 years, I'm in the process of creating a new business right now. There are people I won't work with, for ethical reasons. But there's a grey area too, of people I'm not thrilled about working with, but I don't feel much flexibility in not working with them. Choices are limited sometimes. If it was my call, Wardell didn't really cross that line until gamergate got rolling. I'm not going to try and make any guesses about how Soren feels about it. But if you've already got a product in development, have already had a business relationship for about a year...that's hard to undue.

Are people willing to make an example out of the rest of Mohawk to send a message to other devs?

It's a far less ambiguous choice for me now. If someone made a new dev with Wardell as co-founder tomorrow, I'd definitely not buy their product. But I'm willing to grandfather Mohawk in.

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Sure but what about if you don't buy it but also leave comments that you aren't buying it even though you want to simply because Brad Wardell is a big fat garbage man. Because that's my strategy so far. I think it makes it clear that his involvement directly loses sales.

And also I feel like a big bhole knowing that Soren posts on here. Sorry Soren!

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Sure but what about if you don't buy it but also leave comments that you aren't buying it even though you want to simply because Brad Wardell is a big fat garbage man. Because that's my strategy so far. I think it makes it clear that his involvement directly loses sales.

And also I feel like a big bhole knowing that Soren posts on here. Sorry Soren!

I feel awkward as hell talking about it here, because of Designer Notes and Soren generally seems really cool to me (my main knowledge of him is from his 'cast). But on the other hand, we've had this discussion about other games, and the ethical choices consumers make about the kinds of products and businesses they want to support. It would seem weird not to have it as well.

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The first instant I heard about Brand's involvement with Offworld Trading Colony I sent a tweet to Soren letting him know that I didn't want to support the game if I knew money would be finding its way into Brad's pocket. Which really frustrates me, because I too think Soren is a cool guy who is now stuck with Brad on a business level. 

I've honestly wrestled with this decision a lot, because I want to support Soren, but I personally feel that it is the tiny compromises we make every day that have allowed certain toxic elements to stagnate inside the industry. That being said, there doesn't seem to be a good solution here. Soren will get hurt a lot more if this game doesn't work than Brad will, but Brad will benefit if it does.

Honestly, I don't know what to do.

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And also I feel like a big bhole knowing that Soren posts on here. Sorry Soren!

 

I don't know if I'd prioritise Soren's comfort over the comfort of the people Wardell's been harassing and the people Gamergate have been driving out of their home. Soren might be in a difficult situation, but if he makes a good game that sells poorly, people will assume it didn't sell because of the boycott. He'll be fine.

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I don't think anyone linked the Brad Wardell interview yet.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/gamergate-interviews/12397-Brad-Wardell-GamerGate-Interview

The poor guy is so oblivious, I feel a bit sorry for him. He seems to have a hard time taking criticism as anything but an attack and his faith in inherent gender-differences makes me feel embarassed for him. I like Offworld Trading Company though. It's an interesting and fun game that helps me wrap my head around capitalism.

Edit:

I think I'd rather make judgements on the behaviors rather than the person so I'll rephrase:

Criticizing a work with an understanding of white-supremacy and patriarchy is not necessarily an attack that "taints" the artist.

Gender equality is not the status quo in the United States.

An imbalance between genders in a hobby is more likely to point towards a feedback-loop of exclusivity than an inherent difference of genders.

Talking about Gamergate as if it is a movement for journalistic integrity is harmful and ignorant because it is just a tactic to confuse and inflate activity in a hate-campaign.

Games journalism has no obligation to ignore the ways that games affect and reflect culture.

But I like Offworld Trading Company because it helps me understand capitalism and it's fun, consistent, challenging, and there are few computer-games that use capitalism and markets as a mechanic and medium.

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I don't know if I'd prioritise Soren's comfort over the comfort of the people Wardell's been harassing and the people Gamergate have been driving out of their home. Soren might be in a difficult situation, but if he makes a good game that sells poorly, people will assume it didn't sell because of the boycott. He'll be fine.

 

I don't think most people will assume that, I think most people will just assume it's a bad game, and most money people won't care why it didn't sell, just the sales numbers.

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I don't think most people will assume that, I think most people will just assume it's a bad game, and most money people won't care why it didn't sell, just the sales numbers.

 

People largely don't think Psychonauts is a bad game despite it nearly sinking Majesco.

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I don't think most people will assume that, I think most people will just assume it's a bad game, and most money people won't care why it didn't sell, just the sales numbers.

 

Well first of all, most people don't look at sales numbers because that's not readily available information. If you're just talking about "money people", i.e. investors, then those people would be stupid if they invest in a business without caring to understand why that business would succeed or fail. If Stardock was not a privately held company then I'm sure shareholders would be calling for Brad Wardell's job as CEO for his irresponsible comments that damage his business. 

 

Personally I was kind of interested in the game from the discussion on this episode, but knowing that Wardell is involved is enough to dissuade me from thinking about this further. There are many other games out there that are worth my time and money that don't have clearly visible negative strings attached, and I'm not too worried about what "most people" will do. 

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Wow. That interview. The obliviousness in telling a woman to her 'face' on twitter what the ideal feminist should be, while essentially calling her a whiner. One of the most exciting games journalists in the business, no less. I was already pretty over Wardell with his offering the Zoe Quinn revenge porn artist a job interview. That being said, I'm very conflicted about OTC. The podcast would have completely sold me on it if not for the shenanigans.

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The thing I keep on thinking about in that article is when Wardell is comforted by having a large amount of twitter-followers and seems to think of them as weapons.

 

Consider this brief discussion between Cara Ellison and myself last week. After she gets angry, she pulls the ".@draginol" thing with a "funniest conversation ever" which is the Twitter way to sic your followers on someone.

Now, unfortunately for her, she didn't check to see how many followers I had. But it's a small example of where I'm trying to have a civil conversation with a journalist who claims to write about game developers who, when frustrated, tries to sic her followers on the other person.

 

This really bothers me; it's easy for me to imagine that he has a similar attitude about how many people buy games with which he has involvement. I don't want the fact that I bought and enjoy Offworld Trading Company to contribute to his might-makes-right delusion. I am aware that producing enjoyable art doesn't excuse douchebaggery, but I don't think he is.

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The thing I keep on thinking about in that article is when Wardell is comforted by having a large amount of twitter-followers and seems to think of them as weapons.

 

 

This really bothers me; it's easy for me to imagine that he has a similar attitude about how many people buy games with which he has involvement. I don't want the fact that I bought and enjoy Offworld Trading Company to contribute to his might-makes-right delusion. I am aware that producing enjoyable art doesn't excuse douchebaggery, but I don't think he is.

 

Especially because he did exactly that to me last week (in reply to a tweet where I didn't even mention him by name), and also tagged my employer in the tweet (who, fortunately, are cool and thought he was an ass). Fortunately I'm a guy, so I only got maybe 3 angry tweets from his followers. But yeah.

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People largely don't think Psychonauts is a bad game despite it nearly sinking Majesco.

 

 

While I understand what you're saying, I think the majority of people who have not played it would assume a badly selling game isn't that good. Of course that dovetails in with the metacritic discussion going on in another thread, in that I'm sure a lot of people see a bad score on Metacritic and assume the game is bad too. Neither is wise in my opinion, but I can't fault people for not wanting to spend the time I do keeping up with my hobby.

 

This particular comment though, I guess i was thinking more money people as Latrine suggested. All I'm basically saying is that a publisher like EA is unlikely to give a deal to someone whose game performed poorly, regardless of the quality or reasons.

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Especially because he did exactly that to me last week (in reply to a tweet where I didn't even mention him by name), and also tagged my employer in the tweet (who, fortunately, are cool and thought he was an ass). Fortunately I'm a guy, so I only got maybe 3 angry tweets from his followers. But yeah.

He did the exact same thing in the exact same circumstances to me and to a friend. And we are nobodies, not CEOs with thousands of followers.

The sheer gall of the guy to complain about someone doing it to him is remarkable.

My friend has a first name which doesn't make clear if someone is male or female, so of course he got a lot of sealioning from people thinking he is a woman that you and I didn't get.

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So am I right in thinking that Idle Thumbs 200 is going to be during GDC week?

 

Look at all the people who are going to be in town for GDC just in time for a very special episode of Idle Thumbs

 

Try and get Wil Wright on the show

 

It's okay if the show is 5 hours to fit everyone in

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It's okay if the show is 5 hours to fit everyone in

Five awesome hosts set up a mic,

For a five hour podcast,

A five hour podcast.

(I would watch a Gilligan's island reboot with the Thumbs' hosts cast in it).

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He did the exact same thing in the exact same circumstances to me and to a friend. And we are nobodies, not CEOs with thousands of followers.

The sheer gall of the guy to complain about someone doing it to him is remarkable.

My friend has a first name which doesn't make clear if someone is male or female, so of course he got a lot of sealioning from people thinking he is a woman that you and I didn't get.

 

It's astonishing to me that a person in his position does this sort of thing.

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Five awesome hosts set up a mic,

For a five hour podcast,

A five hour podcast.

(I would watch a Gilligan's island reboot with the Thumbs' hosts cast in it).

 

A five by fiver.

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As I recall, Idle Thumbs #150 was during GDC and had all sorts of guests, and then a computer ate the file, and everyone was sad.

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