Idle Thumbs Asks: What Is the Best Video Game of All Time?

[posh_somme]

As a part of Matter's New York Review of Video Games, the thumbs were asked to discuss what the best game is. I felt like there should be a place to discuss what they said, and I think that this must be the place.

 

Link

[Cordeos]

My favorite game of all time (Not going to say its the greatest game of all time, as that feels too bombastic) Is Grim Fandango.

 

I love that era of LucasArts puzzle games, before they because a Star Wars only shop.

 

It has a very unique and interesting art style based around Day of The Dead art. It has a very fun film noir story, with interesting well voiced characters and great writing. The soundtrack is live recorded jazz and fits the game extremely well. There are so many excellent nods to other works in it, like an entire section of the game being based on the film Casa Blanca. Whenever I go back and play it, I will notice something else I had never noticed before.

 

[tberton]

If I had to pick just one, I'd say Portal is the Best Game.

 

I think it fits all the criteria given here: under Sean's paradigm, a funny, non-violent game that does a very good job of onboarding its mechanics is a good bet for an Ambassador game (not to mention that Valve gives it away all the time); for Chris', Portal does things that only games can do, both in terms of its puzzle solving and its narrative twists; for Jake's, while Portal is a discreet experience, it's so short and the base mechanics are so enjoyable that it lends itself really well to replays - I know I replayed it almost immediately after beating it the first time.

 

However, I prefer picking lists, so here's my list of the six Best Games. Why six? It's the smallest number that can be expressed as the product of two unique primes. Also, I wanted to do five but couldn't narrow it down.

 

Portal

Pikmin

Super Smash Bros. Melee

Depression Quest

WarioWare Inc: Mega Microgame$!

Journey

[Zeusthecat]

I assume by "best" game we're really talking about "favorite" game?

 

If that is the intent, we do have an existing thread for that: https://www.idlethumbs.net/forums/topic/8642-favorite-game-of-all-time/

 

(And my answer is still Minecraft)

[Problem Machine]

By the metric of the game that you play over and over again and feel comforted by, my best game is probably Symphony of the Night. Chrono Trigger is a bit of an odd case there, because I don't actually have the patience to play through it any more but still believe it's one of the most beautiful games ever made and I think of it often.

[syntheticgerbil]

What is that awful drawing/animation on the matter article?!

 

Holy hell!

[eot]

I assume by "best" game we're really talking about "favorite" game?

 

If that is the intent, we do have an existing thread for that: https://www.idlethumbs.net/forums/topic/8642-favorite-game-of-all-time/

 

(And my answer is still Minecraft)

They answer that in the podcast.

 

I liked Chris using Jake's definition to conclude that it was the right definition, clever! Using Chris' definition though I'd pick Dark Souls. For me it is the best at the things which only video games do. It uses space astonishingly well, and makes you build a mental map of the world that leads to nonverbal moments of relevation. It also has mechanics that fully resonate with the themes it's trying to present. Finally, it's written in a way that takes advantage of the fact that you're playing the game, not passively observing it. I think it's amazing in so many ways and all of them are unique to the form. Moments of discovery, tension, uncertainty, relief, victory and melancholy all just through interactive systems. That's games at their best.

 

I also think Dwarf Fortress deserves a mention in any discussion like this.

[Gormongous]

They answer that in the podcast.

 

I liked Chris using Jake's definition to conclude that it was the right definition, clever! Using Chris' definition though I'd pick Dark Souls. For me it is the best at the things which only video games do. It uses space astonishingly well, and makes you build a mental map of the world that leads to nonverbal moments of relevation. It also has mechanics that fully resonate with the themes it's trying to present. Finally, it's written in a way that takes advantage of the fact that you're playing the game, not passively observing it. I think it's amazing in so many ways and all of them are unique to the form. Moments of discovery, tension, uncertainty, relief, victory and melancholy all just through interactive systems. That's games at their best.

 

I also think Dwarf Fortress deserves a mention in any discussion like this.

 

Luckily, the definition also fits my previous choice of Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri just fine. The story is so perfectly served by the mechanics that it feels somehow bigger than the biggest sci-fi novel, while still making ample room for your actions to have their own narrative. It has never once disappointed me in the fifteen years I've been playing it.

 

Runners up are Dark Souls, for the reasons you describe, and King of Dragon Pass, because it's wholly unique compared to other games and captures a little-explored part of human experience.

[posh_somme]

I assume by "best" game we're really talking about "favorite" game?

 

If that is the intent, we do have an existing thread for that: https://www.idlethumbs.net/forums/topic/8642-favorite-game-of-all-time/

 

(And my answer is still Minecraft)

 

this thread is more about discussing the specific podcast they did that I linked to

[Bjorn]

That was a great little 'cast, a lot of fun.

 

What is that awful drawing/animation on the matter article?!
 
Holy hell!

 

Listen to the episode, and it will all make sense.

[tabacco]

The best VGOAT?

[Merus]

Well obviously one of these:

 

[chummer]

Well obviously one of these:

 

 

Vertical GOATs?

[Badfinger]

This further confirms for me that my thought patterns most closely follow Jake's (at least for most topics covered by Idle Thumbs). I strongly disagreed with the Sean/Chris tack taken in the opening minutes because my brain said "If you ask a college kid what the best movie is, what are they going to answer?" When I was in college I'm sure you could find two people in every dorm that thought Boondock Saints was objectively the best movie. I do understand the thought process and the reasoning given, but that's not where my brain was going.

 

In the Grand Theft Auto vein of "a game we don't want to discuss but should" I think Call of Duty: Modern Warfare is extremely high on that list. You can probably trace the fact that sports broadcasters read off ads for video games coming out of commercial breaks pretty directly to MW.

 

In the "Mario Brothers" vein of games that have made both historical and cultural impacts, I submit Pacman and Civilization.

[tegan]

I thought the focus on replayability was an odd choice for the Thumbs. There's lots of media that I enjoy in part because I get more out of it on subsequent readings/viewings/listenings/playthroughs, but I feel like that's something I would consider being parallel to and not integral to the quality of the material. My favourite games are often the ones that can tell a satisfying complete narrative in one sitting.

[GraysonEvans]

Has no one mentioned Far Cry 2 yet? really? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[tberton]

I thought the focus on replayability was an odd choice for the Thumbs. There's lots of media that I enjoy in part because I get more out of it on subsequent readings/viewings/listenings/playthroughs, but I feel like that's something I would consider being parallel to and not integral to the quality of the material. My favourite games are often the ones that can tell a satisfying complete narrative in one sitting.

 

I don't think I used to feel this way, but Depression Quest is the perfect example of a game I played once, never need to play again and will always be on my "Best Ever" list. I probably will play it again someday, but doing so won't really affect my enjoyment.

 

However, I would say that "replayability" or whatever is more than just parallel to quality. I think of it kind of like a proportion. If I'm only going to enjoy something once, that one time had better be really great - especially when it's a game, since so much of the interesting things about games often come from trying different inputs through iteration. So, Depression Quest is a great game, because even though I only played it once, that one time was about as emotionally affecting as any other single creative work I've ever experienced. Conversely, none of my individual sessions of WarioWare have been particularly transcendental, but when taken as a sum over the last ten years, it's extremely impressive.

 

Put differently, if I played WarioWare only once it wouldn't be very meaningful and if I played Depression Quest dozens of times it would either be overwhelming or desensitizing.

[Trip Hazard]

Spelunky. The answer is obviously Spelunky.

 

(disclaimer: I haven't played all the games)

[Pepyri]

I don't know. I feel like Minecraft is a non-answer- yeah, sure, Minecraft is something only possible in games, but Minecraft itself doesn't have a soul. If Minecraft didn't sell an insane number of copies, no one would regard it as some high achievement or another.

 

I kinda feel like the entire idea of a 'best game' ends up being incredibly reductionist. It's gotta be something only possible in games, but in the process that more or less kills any potential storytelling opportunity. It's gotta be video-gamey, which kills the strength some games have as educational simulations. It's a fancy way of saying, "What's the best not-serious thing for a 10 year old to do", which makes me wonder then if we're associating this too much to nostalgia.

 

I dunno. Maybe it's because in my top 10 games of all time, only one is something that even sort of could be considered for this(Natural Selection 1). From there, it's storytold game this, Lords Management that, RPG this, etc etc. It's almost as if the framing of the question goes out of its way to de-legitimize my favorite kinds of experiences that I've only ever gotten from games.

[Merus]

I don't know. I feel like Minecraft is a non-answer- yeah, sure, Minecraft is something only possible in games, but Minecraft itself doesn't have a soul. If Minecraft didn't sell an insane number of copies, no one would regard it as some high achievement or another.

 

I think we played different Minecrafts.

 

Minecraft, at release, feels very Swedish to me - there's a beauty and a harshness to the landscape, which you protect yourself from with your own labour. It doesn't matter so much how you do it, but if it works, it works. It's very minimalist, in that there's not a lot of systems but what systems are there have a lot of complexities, but its systems express something about the real world, about what's important in the world.

 

In terms of game design, there's a huge amount to talk about, from the triumphant use of procedural generation to create interesting environments, to the clever way the tools create a progression without gating, to the way mechanics reflect Western story structure, which makes pretty much everything that happens in Minecraft fodder for player stories. ("I wanted something, so I went into a nearby cave, and then...")

 

Also remember the question is what's the best game, not the greatest game. That means, as the Thumbs point out, you need criteria for determining what is meant by 'best' and what to judge 'best' on.

[kaputt]

Well obviously one of these:

I just can't stop laughing right now, omg.

Well, my favorite game is Shadow of the Colossus. But I didn't listen to the cast, I'll do it when I get home to see what it is about.

[tberton]

Also remember the question is what's the best game, not the greatest game. That means, as the Thumbs point out, you need criteria for determining what is meant by 'best' and what to judge 'best' on.

 

While I understand what is meant by this, I still find it funny. "Greatest" doesn't really have any more definite meaning than "best".

[Pepyri]

I think we played different Minecrafts.

 

Minecraft, at release, feels very Swedish to me - there's a beauty and a harshness to the landscape, which you protect yourself from with your own labour. It doesn't matter so much how you do it, but if it works, it works. It's very minimalist, in that there's not a lot of systems but what systems are there have a lot of complexities, but its systems express something about the real world, about what's important in the world.

 

In terms of game design, there's a huge amount to talk about, from the triumphant use of procedural generation to create interesting environments, to the clever way the tools create a progression without gating, to the way mechanics reflect Western story structure, which makes pretty much everything that happens in Minecraft fodder for player stories. ("I wanted something, so I went into a nearby cave, and then...")

 

Sure, but you could say all of that, and much more, about Dwarf Fortress. Or EvE Online. But DF didn't blow up the way that Minecraft did. After a time, the only distinguishable thing that Minecraft let you do is build structures- at which point you're not doing something unique to games at all, you're literally just playing lego with free pieces.

 

That's all well and good(and lord knows I lost a genuine 40 hours out of a 48 hour weekend once and vowed to not return as a result), but that doesn't strike me as something remarkable. The landscapes it draws are inevitable of any cube game with generated biomes. The systems it has are simple and capable of a lot, but countless games have that same level of systems and never blew up, so we'll never see the recreation of processors inside of them. Except we did see that, again, in Dwarf Fortress(a game I really never enjoyed playing).

 

I like Minecraft, I'm glad it exists and I think it's had a huge contribution to gaming, but I'm also sort of the opinion that it's minimalist to a degree that makes me wonder if it's creation was not an inevitability, instead of a creative vision.

 

 

Also remember the question is what's the best game, not the greatest game. That means, as the Thumbs point out, you need criteria for determining what is meant by 'best' and what to judge 'best' on.

 

I agree you need criteria, I just think the criteria they chose is reductionist in a way that does a disservice to games.

[tberton]

I don't know. I feel like Minecraft is a non-answer- yeah, sure, Minecraft is something only possible in games, but Minecraft itself doesn't have a soul. If Minecraft didn't sell an insane number of copies, no one would regard it as some high achievement or another.

 

I kinda feel like the entire idea of a 'best game' ends up being incredibly reductionist. It's gotta be something only possible in games, but in the process that more or less kills any potential storytelling opportunity. It's gotta be video-gamey, which kills the strength some games have as educational simulations. It's a fancy way of saying, "What's the best not-serious thing for a 10 year old to do", which makes me wonder then if we're associating this too much to nostalgia.

 

I dunno. Maybe it's because in my top 10 games of all time, only one is something that even sort of could be considered for this(Natural Selection 1). From there, it's storytold game this, Lords Management that, RPG this, etc etc. It's almost as if the framing of the question goes out of its way to de-legitimize my favorite kinds of experiences that I've only ever gotten from games.

 

I don't see how "only possible in games" removes storytelling opportunity. Portal, Depression Quest, Journey, Cart Life - all offer fantastic stories that are really only possible in games.

 

What do you mean by "video-gamey"? I take that to mean "uses tropes generally used by past games", and in that case, nobody on the podcast was really advocating for that.

[Pepyri]

I don't see how "only possible in games" removes storytelling opportunity. Portal, Depression Quest, Journey, Cart Life - all offer fantastic stories that are really only possible in games.

 

What do you mean by "video-gamey"? I take that to mean "uses tropes generally used by past games", and in that case, nobody on the podcast was really advocating for that.

 

Those games are the exact kinds of things I was thinking of(though none of those specifically), but not one of those was mentioned. And I disagree with your assessment- that's pretty much all that they talked about.

 

• Super Mario
• Tetris
• Grand Theft Auto
• Guitar Hero
• Far Cry 2

etc etc.  The vast majority of games they mentioned were not brand new experiences, nor were they lauded for their storytelling achievements. They even went out of their way to say something along the lines of 'not Grim Fandango'. Which is fine- I think every game on that list deserves a mention- but it's the omission of greats like Shadow of the Colossus, or any primarily multiplayer games(aside from Minecraft).

 

But more what I mean by video-gamey is that quality some games have of being abstract, ridiculous, and based around some sort of very tight system. I love my systemic games(they're what I've spent most of my life on) but I wouldn't use that to disclude the type of games they did.