Jake

Twin Peaks Rewatch 9: May the Giant Be With You

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I still don’t understand why or how Leland’s hair is supposed to have turned white.

When I watched the series for the first time I was absurdly grateful for that. For most of the show I had a really hard time telling Ben and Leland apart, for some reason. I had the same problem with basically everybody on Band of Brothers, too, so maybe it's just me.

All the post-death explanations of Leland's weirdness: the hair, the dancing, etc. is so unfortunate. It seems like a clear instance of a writer or writers who just don't get it trying to rationalize Lynch's dreamy incomprehensability, and the result is laughable.

 

I try hard not to think of Ronette's nightmare, just like I try hard not to think about Bob crouched behind the bedpost. Laura is scary, scary, scary in this episode.

 

Maybe Diane puts up with Cooper's endless tapes because every once in awhile he drops some wisdom. His observation on fear is pretty beautiful, and Kyle MacLachlan sells it better than the similar observation put forth in Dune. :)

 

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Something else I forgot to mention. There is something a little strange and off about Dr. Hayward's children. First off, we barely ever see any of them except Donna, even at most family dinner scenes. Then there is Christine's speech in this episode about her talents and grades in school and how she "doesnt have to be ashamed anymore". What are Dr. Hayward and Eileen doing to their children??

It kind of reminds me of the family cultures of some real world like fundamentalist Christian homeschooling families or something and how weird it looks to people on the outside.

Maybe Doc Hayward is a tyrant who pressures his kids to be these overachievers or else be mysteriously absent for family functions. I'm joking of course, but there is something a little strange there.

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My brother pointed out to me that the piece Fairy Princess Gersten Hayward plays during the credits is an eleven-bar blues, which is pretty creepy in its own way.

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First time viewer here. This episode nearly lost me. Some reactions:

The giant - the dream riddles were intriguing in the first season, but now these are both more direct and more deliberate. If this supernatural giant guy and/or the forces he represents wants to reveal the killer, why be coy? Oh he "isn't allowed" to say more...dumb.

Leland's transformation - I guess it makes sense to some degree since he seems confident he killed Laura's killer, but the white hair? The show is not even putting a pretense of lurking weirdness anymore is it. Also I could relate to a grieving father doing crazy stuff out of grief, but the singing seems way out of character and annoys me as well.

The carpet - wait so now Maddie is having visions and dreams too? Actually when Leland popped out I thought it was another dream sequence, but nope. Yet another person is hallucinating.

Donna's transformation - my interpretation is that the "evil" that had a hold of Laura now has a hold of Donna (see above about obvious supernatural). Some of you say Donna is doing this deliberately, but it seems way too goofy and out of character to be anything but possession, IMO. If it is her choice...then I guess I can't understand why. Yesterday she was cool, she breaks into an office and decides to change her personality completely? That stuff with James in the jail was totally bizarre and inappropriate to their relationship.

 

Those were the most off-putting things to me. Basically up til now I was willing to suspend disbelief and accept the weird stuff since it was mostly anchored by real people. Now it's too over the top, I guess.

 

But it's not all bad, there were a lot of good moments too. I'm glad the investigation is still making some progress. (Although come on Albert, stop deliberately insulting people in distress, you're a professional.) As a minor note, I felt James' acting has improved quite a bit, I found him pretty lifelike in the interrogation scene, so that's a relief. My interest is definitely waning - if this was on TV I'd give the show a couple more episodes and see if I wanted to quit watching. Knowing that a lot of people found the rest of the season worth watching, and that the podcast and forums will be here to help me through, I'll probably hang in there anyway.

 

That thing that Cooper forgot, it's the vet isn't it? They never actually went back and met Bob. I hope they do.

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Regarding the giant, I always felt like the supernatural characters in Twin Peaks aren't really meant to be operating with clear motives, or at least not ones that make sense to us. Sometimes it seems like they're helping Cooper, and other times they seem to be playing with him or hindering the investigation. To me, the fact that their actions seem unfathomable makes them more interesting and scary.

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You only think the Giant's last clue pays off in the same episode, but it doesn't actually pay off until the third-to-last episode!

 

post-8337-0-79432200-1418174796_thumb.jpg

 

Twin Peaks plays the long game!

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You only think the Giant's last clue pays off in the same episode, but it doesn't actually pay off until the third-to-last episode!

 

 

Twin Peaks plays the long game!

 

LOL - well done!

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Those were the most off-putting things to me. Basically up til now I was willing to suspend disbelief and accept the weird stuff since it was mostly anchored by real people. Now it's too over the top, I guess.

 

But it's not all bad, there were a lot of good moments too. I'm glad the investigation is still making some progress. (Although come on Albert, stop deliberately insulting people in distress, you're a professional.) As a minor note, I felt James' acting has improved quite a bit, I found him pretty lifelike in the interrogation scene, so that's a relief. My interest is definitely waning - if this was on TV I'd give the show a couple more episodes and see if I wanted to quit watching. Knowing that a lot of people found the rest of the season worth watching, and that the podcast and forums will be here to help me through, I'll probably hang in there anyway.

 

This is interesting to read as it was a common reaction at the time. Now people talk about the second season as if the popularity turned at a later point but really, it was the season 2 premiere, very much for the reasons you mention (in addition to the episode moving so slowly and the lack of resolution for "who killed Laura Palmer" - apparently that concluding flashback was considered more confusing than revealing). This in particular was a widespread response: "The show is not even putting a pretense of lurking weirdness anymore is it." Weird-for-weirdness' sake was how many viewers and critics put it.

 

Personally, I feel the early second season is actually better (while more uneven) than the first season. If I was listing favorite moments, many more would be from these episodes than season one. So I'd say stick with it. And for selfish reasons too - I've been enjoying reading your reactions so far.

 

That said, if you eventually find the show is not to your taste, I'd still advise checking out at least three more pieces of Twin Peaks - worth watching on their own as cinematic (let alone television) landmarks. This isn't a spoiler per se but I wouldn't advise "unlocking" it unless you want to know ahead of time when to expect highlights:

Episode 15, 30, and Fire Walk With Me (the film). On most "official" listings, of course, ep. 15 & 30 are actually called 14 & 29 (the pilot being "0"). The German titles are "Lonely Souls" and "Beyond Life and Death."

 

The concluding parts of these episodes are easily among the most well-executed setpieces in David Lynch's career, as good as anything in Blue Velvet or Mulholland Drive - and their effect has more to do with Lynch's handling of visuals and audio than narrative understanding (or lack thereof), so they could theoretically be watched in isolation. That said, the dramatic impact is certainly stronger after watching the preceding episodes. As for Fire Walk With Me, it's not to everyone's tastes but I consider it the best part of Twin Peaks and one of the most hypnotic and devastating movies I've ever seen. Very different in tone from the show.

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This in particular was a widespread response: "The show is not even putting a pretense of lurking weirdness anymore is it." Weird-for-weirdness' sake was how many viewers and critics put it.

 

Let me clarify a bit as I think my objection is subtly different. I am fine with having weird events and weird characters in the show, and I think even these things have a purpose. They're not only for their own sake IMO (though I can see why others might see it that way). My problem is that they are so blatant that they cease to seem mysterious or ominous. Having a strange dream: is this your subconscious or some force trying to communicate to you? Contrasted with: this giant is pretty clearly a real being and he's speaking in riddles specifically to mess with you (and the audience). I'm hoping Cooper digs into this more critically next episode.

 

Maybe I'm being too sensitive here, but I'm finding it harder to let it slide that the characters just accept these CLEARLY bizarre occurrences with scarcely a mention. Nothing in season 1 stood out to me like this. All the weird stuff was either plausibly explained why people accept it (e.g. the Log Lady, Cooper's dreams), or directly called out and investigated somewhat (Sarah's visions of Bob). If the characters start talking about this stuff maybe I'll feel better about it.

 

Leland's transformation was commented on near the end at least, but it seemed to be hand-waved far too easily. If I was Doc Hayward or the Horne brothers I would have been like, "you're saying you didn't dye it? The entire length of your hair turned white in one night? My that is unusual! And do you really want us to believe that you've overcome your grief after one week? This happiness seems kind of forced Leland, do you think that's healthy?" That's the kind of thing I'm hoping to see in the next couple episodes, since I think and hope it does serve a purpose in the story. If it's not really mentioned again then yeah, not only is it not scary but it's pointless as well.

 

(Edited to add: after watching your examination that you linked earlier, I think you said this nicely at the end - season 1's power was in suggestion. With weird things out in plain view, I expect the characters to react appropriately.)

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Let me clarify a bit as I think my objection is subtly different. I am fine with having weird events and weird characters in the show, and I think even these things have a purpose. They're not only for their own sake IMO (though I can see why others might see it that way). My problem is that they are so blatant that they cease to seem mysterious or ominous. Having a strange dream: is this your subconscious or some force trying to communicate to you? Contrasted with: this giant is pretty clearly a real being and he's speaking in riddles specifically to mess with you (and the audience). I'm hoping Cooper digs into this more critically next episode.

 

Maybe I'm being too sensitive here, but I'm finding it harder to let it slide that the characters just accept these CLEARLY bizarre occurrences with scarcely a mention. Nothing in season 1 stood out to me like this. All the weird stuff was either plausibly explained why people accept it (e.g. the Log Lady, Cooper's dreams), or directly called out and investigated somewhat (Sarah's visions of Bob). If the characters start talking about this stuff maybe I'll feel better about it.

 

Leland's transformation was commented on near the end at least, but it seemed to be hand-waved far too easily. If I was Doc Hayward or the Horne brothers I would have been like, "you're saying you didn't dye it? The entire length of your hair turned white in one night? My that is unusual! And do you really want us to believe that you've overcome your grief after one week? This happiness seems kind of forced Leland, do you think that's healthy?" That's the kind of thing I'm hoping to see in the next couple episodes, since I think and hope it does serve a purpose in the story. If it's not really mentioned again then yeah, not only is it not scary but it's pointless as well.

 

(Edited to add: after watching your examination that you linked earlier, I think you said this nicely at the end - season 1's power was in suggestion. With weird things out in plain view, I expect the characters to react appropriately.)

 

Yes, that makes sense. Without getting too spoiler-y, there will be some upcoming discussion of strangeness and believability thereof amongst the characters. But also some more strangeness that is (too easily?) accepted.

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So I finally watched Fire Walk With Me. I won't spoil anything for new viewers, but I urge you to watch it at some point, and it might even work best late in season 2 before the end. Previously I had ignored the film as it seemed both panned and pointless (who needs a prologue? I know what happened) but, man. Take Twin Peaks on the edge of a  rubberband and stretch it into the Lost Highway spectrum. It was far more chilling than expected. Excellent. I really hope Chris and Jake cover it as an epilogue or something. 

 

Related to the conversation I think one of the things people find intriguing about the show is how the residents take the supernatural and mystical forces in stride. This might be a stretch, but in particular I feel like people on the "good" side of the Twin Peaks yin yang take positive mysticism as matter of course, while those more influenced by dark forces seem to have some kind of awareness of the evil energies that permeate the town. In that sense it seems natural his family would be concerned, while the horns (the two horns!) accept it as Leland's return to form. 

 

And if you think people just accepting someones hair being shocked white is incongruous, you're in for something really special when trained FBI agents take a dimension-shifting David Bowie in stride.


 

Thinking ahead to new Twin Peaks, I'd love to see Chris Isaaks return and I'd rather have Fire Walk With Me Donna (Moira Kelly). Both actors have aged really well and we all know what kind of horrorshow Lara Flynn Boyle has become. But maybe she can play Bob now since we've also lost ‎Frank Silva. 

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As far as "weird stuff" in Twin Peaks, I treat all this stuff as basically metaphor. Like, in literature its the equivalent of some particularly dense and poetic passage that elides ordinary meaning. I know for Twin Peaks diehard fans they have this whole cosmological explanation for all this supernatural stuff, but I've never found any of that particularly interesting. I just think of it as the visual equivalent of literary metaphor, and therefore stuff that gets interpreted, but not necessarily explained and resolved, if that makes any sense.

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Or just large narrative holes that we fill with our own meaning like someone with a minor case of serious brain damage stitches together memories with invented patches.   :o

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I always took the lack of comment on the weird stuff to be intention writing/direction (let's stick this stuff in here, not have anyone comment on it) that was stylistic, part "if you live in a town like this, it might just be part of your normal goings-on." In that way, it reminds me of Passions (soap opera), though Passions feels more like it was influenced by Twin Peaks directly, making that a fairly terrible comparison.

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So I finally watched Fire Walk With Me. I won't spoil anything for new viewers, but I urge you to watch it at some point, and it might even work best late in season 2 before the end. Previously I had ignored the film as it seemed both panned and pointless (who needs a prologue? I know what happened) but, man. Take Twin Peaks on the edge of a  rubberband and stretch it into the Lost Highway spectrum. It was far more chilling than expected. Excellent. I really hope Chris and Jake cover it as an epilogue or something. 

 

Fire Walk With Me is my favorite part of Twin Peaks. One of the things I like about the blu-ray set that came out this summer is it forces fans to consider the film part of the overall saga (even as an admirer of the movie, I'd been inclined to see it as a separate phenomenon), both because of the packaging and because The Missing Pieces form a sort of bridge between the worlds of the show & film. I'm really hoping that when Showtime re-runs the series in 2016 as a prelude to the new show, they also screen the movie. Mark Frost (who didn't have anything to do with the movie and was reputedly not a fan) has said it's "canon" as far as he is concerned, and that elements will most likely be incorporated into the new material so it would really be doing newcomers a disservice NOT to air it.

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As far as "weird stuff" in Twin Peaks, I treat all this stuff as basically metaphor. Like, in literature its the equivalent of some particularly dense and poetic passage that elides ordinary meaning. I know for Twin Peaks diehard fans they have this whole cosmological explanation for all this supernatural stuff, but I've never found any of that particularly interesting. I just think of it as the visual equivalent of literary metaphor, and therefore stuff that gets interpreted, but not necessarily explained and resolved, if that makes any sense.

 

 

Or just large narrative holes that we fill with our own meaning like someone with a minor case of serious brain damage stitches together memories with invented patches.   :o

 

 

I always took the lack of comment on the weird stuff to be intention writing/direction (let's stick this stuff in here, not have anyone comment on it) that was stylistic, part "if you live in a town like this, it might just be part of your normal goings-on." In that way, it reminds me of Passions (soap opera), though Passions feels more like it was influenced by Twin Peaks directly, making that a fairly terrible comparison.

 

 

First off every TV show / movie has some established level of unreality to it. Some try hard to make as close copy of our waking world as they can, others embrace the dreamscape. Even reality TV is a complete fabrication. 

 

It is my opinion that tv/movies are not a representation of our lives, but of our dreams. We sit in a dark room and become catatonic for an hour or more at a time sharing dreams. I believe David Lynch is acutely aware of this and lets intuition and emotional resonance guide him more so than his intellect. Which I believe is why the actions of the characters seem unreal. I would also argue that the characters on Days of our lives/law and order/ect... are equally strange and do things that would look completely odd in the real world. I think the reason for the reaction, is that Twin Peaks while always "dreamy" takes a step down the "dream ladder" to a deeper level of unreality in this episode. 

 

I am sympathetic for viewers that feel jarred or off put, even angry when the level of "dreaminess" shifts in a film, when they think they are watching one thing and it changes into something else. I am sure that it wakes them up to the artifice of the experience. I would also say that if you are aware that all of this is a dream then it no longer matters what genre you are watching as long as it is engaging, inventive, and fulfilling.

 

I would agree that it is all metaphor, but it's not explicit. There is a lot of room for the viewer to fill in meaning. I think David is aware that everything in his films have meaning because they resonate to him. Which is to say his unconscious mind knows what everything that he is doing means, even if he is not completely aware in the moment that he is filming it. The act of creating gives him a window to see what those deeper truths are.

 

For the record most of this is my own conjecture. I feel like I understand Lynch mostly from watching his work, and from some of the things I have heard him say. but i am no expert.

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First off every TV show / movie has some established level of unreality to it. Some try hard to make as close copy of our waking world as they can, others embrace the dreamscape. Even reality TV is a complete fabrication. 

 

It is my opinion that tv/movies are not a representation of our lives, but of our dreams. We sit in a dark room and become catatonic for an hour or more at a time sharing dreams. I believe David Lynch is acutely aware of this and lets intuition and emotional resonance guide him more so than his intellect. Which I believe is why the actions of the characters seem unreal. I would also argue that the characters on Days of our lives/law and order/ect... are equally strange and do things that would look completely odd in the real world. I think the reason for the reaction, is that Twin Peaks while always "dreamy" takes a step down the "dream ladder" to a deeper level of unreality in this episode. 

 

I am sympathetic for viewers that feel jarred or off put, even angry when the level of "dreaminess" shifts in a film, when they think they are watching one thing and it changes into something else. I am sure that it wakes them up to the artifice of the experience. I would also say that if you are aware that all of this is a dream then it no longer matters what genre you are watching as long as it is engaging, inventive, and fulfilling.

 

I would agree that it is all metaphor, but it's not explicit. There is a lot of room for the viewer to fill in meaning. I think David is aware that everything in his films have meaning because they resonate to him. Which is to say his unconscious mind knows what everything that he is doing means, even if he is not completely aware in the moment that he is filming it. The act of creating gives him a window to see what those deeper truths are.

 

For the record most of this is my own conjecture. I feel like I understand Lynch mostly from watching his work, and from some of the things I have heard him say. but i am no expert.

 

Neither am I, but from what I've watched & read, I agree completely.

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Yay, this episode's delay has finally enabled me to catch up! I just started re-watching last week so I've been trying to hit 1-2 episodes a day, with podcasts and forum threads as well. Some odd things that others haven't mentioned stood out to me in episode:

 

James specifically mentions Mike and Bobby in connection with the cocaine, but when is the last time Mike was actually in the show? Like the 4th episode? So odd that the character is basically gone but everyone still says "Mike and Bobby"

While we're on the subject, with all the crap that Bobby has going on with Leo, why does he still care enough about Jesse to try and frame him with the cocaine? Especially after the revelation he had with Jacoby late last season.

Finally, (and feel free to drop me a spoiler to answer if you know) where the hell did the Meals on Wheels note come from? What other characters in the show care enough about the amateur detectives to throw them a bone?

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Had a dream I chugged half a bottle of gin and then listened to episode 9 in a stupor. Don't drink gin and haven't even had a drink in weeks. Woke up hungover. Weird.

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Finally, (and feel free to drop me a spoiler to answer if you know) where the hell did the Meals on Wheels note come from? What other characters in the show care enough about the amateur detectives to throw them a bone?

 

Norma. She delivers the note, and she is the one organizing the program. She is also way too unassuming about Donna taking over Laura's route, especially as she is at least a little aware of their investigations.

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Norma. She delivers the note, and she is the one organizing the program. She is also way too unassuming about Donna taking over Laura's route, especially as she is at least a little aware of their investigations.

 

Interesting, I've always assumed it was

Harold. Donna does say (on the phone to him) "Got your note" in the next episode. Though then again, how would a shut-in, whose only contact is through the now-aborted Meals on Wheels program, deliver a note to the RR? We know he does at least go to his - and/or his neighbor's - mailbox given the events of ep. 16.

If it's Norma, what do you think would be her motive?

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Regarding the giant, I always felt like the supernatural characters in Twin Peaks aren't really meant to be operating with clear motives, or at least not ones that make sense to us. Sometimes it seems like they're helping Cooper, and other times they seem to be playing with him or hindering the investigation. To me, the fact that their actions seem unfathomable makes them more interesting and scary.

 

I did take specific note that the Giant says "You can think of me as a friend."

To me that implies "We're not really friends or even allies, but you are a useful piece to me in this game." Exactly how much of this is mutual benefit and how much is the Giant using Cooper is up for debate though.

 

Also when reading people talking back on this episode, I found myself thinking back on my first viewing and it really didn't read as a reveal or anything. We have previously seen that man appear in strange, unreal visions. What does this sequence tell us in a show where we're often averse to taking things we see as 'real'? And even if we take them as literally what happened, it doesn't really mean anything since we don't know who he is. At least not yet.

 

I also do remember really loving this episode, because it was really cementing the unique weirdness that I could expect from the show. BUT this is the opinion of someone who didn't have to wait at all to get more episodes and didn't actually get put off at all by

the dipping quality of season 2. I was only aware it was a thing in retrospect, when I heard people here discussing it. I did notice liking those parts less but not enough that I thought it was no longer worth watching more.

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Major Briggs' speech to Bobby - what a transformative moment for that character (both of them really, but the Major especially)

 

What makes the Major's dream seem so powerful, both to Bobby and to us, is that it clearly would never even occur to the Major to make something like that up to manipulate his relationship with his son. He's far more invested in the dream itself, in his delight over the auspicious fate for Bobby that he thinks has been revealed to him. The Major hardly notices how floored Bobby is at that moment to find out his dad might not think he's a total loser, nor the possibility that simply telling Bobby about this dream might be the first step in Bobby's redemption.

 

What's really gross is wondering how many of the things Bobby does over the rest of the season are, in his mind, steps toward fulfilling his dad's dream.

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Somewhat unrelated anecdote.

My mother was cognizant of pop culture and was around when the Twin Peaks phenomenon happened. As I was rewatching the show, and talking to her about it, she decided she also wanted to watch. She got to the reveal of

Leland

, and last time I talked to her she said she lost interest after that.

I really wish a way existed to erase like six episodes of garbage and keep it cohesive to keep it interesting even to people not invested in a rewatch.

Then again, I imagine that you could pretty much skip five to six episodes and lose very little.

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