DmC: Discipline Management Class for those Bad Kids

[syntheticgerbil]

Sorry I can't think of this game without thinking of DMC from my middle and highschool, which was "Discipline Management Class." I was sent a couple of times for fighting in middle school. You sit there and do all of your work for the full school day in silence. Your teachers send everything for the day and you also catch up on homework. You actually get a shitload done being forced to sit in one seat all day, not moving between classes and doing all of this stuff.

 

Anyway, does anyone actually like Ninja Theory's Devil May Cry? I am mostly playing this because I enjoyed Heavenly Sword and Enslaved (god, I loved Enslaved), but I was iffy because of all of the trailers and all of the video game babies who were mad about this new Dante. I also suck at these style of hack and slash games where I get graded and such having only played Lollipop Chainsaw, Heavenly Sword, and Prince of Persia games (If you truly do count the stuff from Warrior Within and on, even though they are heavy on platforming, they all have a combo system). None of those were particularly hard for me, but I don't think I am playing the extreme ones. I'm not going to go back and play any previous Devil May Crys since nothing from those games actually appeal to me. Metal Gear Rising, No More Heroes, and Killer is Dead are all somewhere on my list for a later date. So I suppose I need to get good at this type of game.

 

So onto what everyone was mad about: the new Dante and the "edginess" of the game. I suppose the aversion to swearing is fair, but I feel like all of the people who make 20 minutes Youtube videos mad at this game, Tameem Antoniades, Ninja Theory, and the script would have no issue with the cursing. Especially those of the group that were sending the developers death threats over the damn game. I also remember seeing Devil May Cry fans struggle with so hard with this game because they loved Enslaved or Heavenly Sword, but tried to justify the like of those games because Tameem was not the lead writer and instead it was Rhianna Pratchett and Alex Garland respectively. What I find amusing is that in the opening credits Alex Garland is credited as story supervisor, meaning probably many bits of dialogue and storyline are his. Surprise!

 

That said, I still felt like I was going to get into a game starring an insufferable main character. The stuff shown off in trailers and complaint videos

especially stuff spoiling the baby killing and "wet baby chunks" line

really made me uncomfortable. However, I soon realized Dante doesn't have a ton of lines in the main game, with Kat or Vergil doing a lot of the talking while you are playing. If anything, Dante quickly becomes likeable, but maybe it's because I find lots of dumb swearing amusing as well as dumb jokes where he punches out a bouncer and writes "fuck you" on the list, which was a major point of contention for the angry fanboys. To me it plays like a more serious and dark version of Lollipop Chainsaw. There's still a lot of fun to be had. Dante is actually positioned as obnoxious, childish, nihilistic, hedonistic, and uncaring as a major theme of the story. Oddly enough I felt like he moved from the jerkoff in the opening cutscene to a level headed character with a moral compass maybe too quickly.

 

My wife tends to hang around while I'm playing games, and while finding the story generally cheesy and rightfully so, she kept watching the cutscenes (the soda factory is super contrived along but I found surfing through Fox News graphics and killing Bill O'Reilly pretty awesome). What I find hilarious is that her problem was not with Dante, but Vergil and the way he talked. She was so annoyed with his "rich kid" dialogue for whatever reason. "Who talks like that? No one talks like that!"

 

So yeah, that story was a lot of fun in the end and I was engaged. Kat was a cool character, but I tend to really love all of the Ninja Theory female characters, outside of probably whoever is in the racist extravaganza Kung Fu Chaos. The whole

baby killing plot that originally put me off was actually not a big deal and presented somewhat of an interesting moral quandary. The way the angry Youtube videos positioned this plot point failed to bring up that this baby was a demon spawn, heir to the villian, that you fight the baby in a weird grotesque boss fight before, and that Vergil is the one who pulls the trigger. Dante seems a bit taken aback when he is told to kill the baby in the underworld, also does not agree with Vergil shooting the baby (even though it had to be done), and only says "wet baby chunks" to get a rise out of Mundus to show his demon form, which he actually has somewhat of a difficulty pulling off.

It all makes sense within context and really didn't bother me once I played the actual game. Sheesh.

 

Graphics are amazing, but everyone knows that.

 

I am going for the Platinum trophy, which means I have to do six playthroughs. I'm on my second and I am still not near getting all of the upgrades. I have a pretty hard time fighting effectively even at the next step up in difficulty. I don't know what it is, the combos in this are pretty easy to memorize since they are generally the same between weapons, but even still I have a difficult time remembering what weapon does what when I use a certain button combination, plus I continuously forget I can do a lot of other useful moves outside of my staples. I feel pretty lame considering everyone criticized this game for being way too easy, even on hardest difficulty. It's like, there's 8 total weapons I have to juggle from, multiple triggers I have to keep track of, simultaneous push triggers to do effect evades (which my fingers totally suck at), and switching between weapons with the d-pad mid combat. Oy. Am I really that bad? I mean it feels really awesome when I link together a good variety of weapons and chain myself to and fro between enemies and get the style points, but usually I'm being hit by someone or I am overwhelmed with all of the enemies on screen.

 

I can't even really look up forums on certain enemy strategies, since almost every thread you'll ever find on this game involves mostly angry trolls decrying the game instead of being helpful. It's a cesspit out there.

[Merus]

Yeah, I like it too. DmC was a pretty neat reboot, and like you I really enjoyed the Bad News level, which I think is the only time I've genuinely enjoyed a mook fight phase in a boss fight.

 

My housemate is an avowed DMC fan, and he's quite certain that people don't know what they're talking about when they say that this game has a lower skill ceiling - it's absolutely more accessible, but the system's well balanced with plenty of depth, and what's supposedly been lost is completely unimportant.

[Mawd]

I really enjoyed it. I've been a huge series fan and I think this was a very satisfying game. I might even get it for my PC sometime.

 

I do think a certain part of the game feel was lost when I played it though. Perhaps I just need to replay it on a higher difficulty. Also while it's been almost a year since I played it there was something of a let down in the last boss fight. Although I can't put my finger on it.

[syntheticgerbil]

My housemate is an avowed DMC fan, and he's quite certain that people don't know what they're talking about when they say that this game has a lower skill ceiling - it's absolutely more accessible, but the system's well balanced with plenty of depth, and what's supposedly been lost is completely unimportant.

I suspect that a lot of people are claiming it's easy as part of the dismissal of the reboot. Like getting high rankings in the middle of fighting seems kind of easy, but getting the SSS rank at the end for style is something I have yet to do so far and as I start on the harder difficulty, the grade lowers. I wonder if a lot of these people consider the fact that the ranking at the end of the level is more important than individual rankings during fights.

 

Also while it's been almost a year since I played it there was something of a let down in the last boss fight. Although I can't put my finger on it.

Hmm, the last fight was somewhat tough for me, however it's because it's a continuation of those damn demon enemies with the button eyes that teleport through the stage. I have no idea how to efficiently deal with enemies that continuously block.

 

Do you have any tips on dealing with those guys? Also any tips on dealing with the blade shooting enemy? The game mentioned I can ricochet their shots, but I can never seem to get it to work except when I charge my scythe, which takes too long to continuously do and not get hit when there's like five other enemies to deal with. A regular hit from the scythe doesn't seem to reflect, and the Aquilas, sword, and demon weapons seem useless on richochet.

[Mawd]

Hmm, the last fight was somewhat tough for me, however it's because it's a continuation of those damn demon enemies with the button eyes that teleport through the stage. I have no idea how to efficiently deal with enemies that continuously block.

 

Do you have any tips on dealing with those guys? Also any tips on dealing with the blade shooting enemy? The game mentioned I can ricochet their shots, but I can never seem to get it to work except when I charge my scythe, which takes too long to continuously do and not get hit when there's like five other enemies to deal with. A regular hit from the scythe doesn't seem to reflect, and the Aquilas, sword, and demon weapons seem useless on richochet.

 

It's been too long for me to remember specifics sorry. I played it on a three day rental in between nine hour shifts weeding outdoors for a lilly bulb plantation about a year ago.  So while I do remember I had my critical thinking cap on the details were a bit of a blur

[Brannigan]

If I remember right the teleporters leave themselves open after they teleport stab, dodge and slash in the back

Oh and the really fast stabby combo...uh...basically its the hundred hand slap but with a sword breaks their block.

[syntheticgerbil]

I figured out I could actually hook the obese guys, but I guess that's my problem with the teleporting demons, they are only really very open at that time where I can get a full combo in without getting hit or blocked. On the regular difficulty it wasn't so bad because it was usually them alone but it's getting tough when they are mixed in with a bunch of other guys, especially the blade machine demon.

I'll definitely try that multistab thing more though. Seems like a good technique I just always forget.

EDIT: I did find one strategy for the Dreamrunner, as they are known, which means I have to throw a projecticle and try to hook them while they are blocking them. That seems like such a small window of time, plus they usually reflect your projectile right back at you and you get hit, since I often accidentally throw those spinning blades. Hmmm...

Also seems like the only way to ricochet blade man's blades are to use the scythe, which I knew worked, but it does seem like the only way to do it is charging. The time that takes leaves me so open though.

[Mawd]

I've jumped back into DMC with the pc version (+ gamepad) and I agree that its a fantastic game. I'm starting to wonder if my familiarity with God of War causes me to feel like the game is missing something. I really enjoy both series and I've been playing them almost since they came out but I can't help feel like my preference of game feel for one has bled into the other which is weird because I've enjoyed both games on their own equally. I really enjoyed heavenly sword as well and was confident in the developer as they went into this; it just feels like something's slightly off-centre for my experience.

[Synnah]

I figured out I could actually hook the obese guys, but I guess that's my problem with the teleporting demons, they are only really very open at that time where I can get a full combo in without getting hit or blocked. On the regular difficulty it wasn't so bad because it was usually them alone but it's getting tough when they are mixed in with a bunch of other guys, especially the blade machine demon.

I'll definitely try that multistab thing more though. Seems like a good technique I just always forget.

EDIT: I did find one strategy for the Dreamrunner, as they are known, which means I have to throw a projecticle and try to hook them while they are blocking them. That seems like such a small window of time, plus they usually reflect your projectile right back at you and you get hit, since I often accidentally throw those spinning blades. Hmmm...

Also seems like the only way to ricochet blade man's blades are to use the scythe, which I knew worked, but it does seem like the only way to do it is charging. The time that takes leaves me so open though.

 

Don't know if you're still playing this, but the best strategies for dealing with the Dreamrunners involve waiting for them to teleport and dealing with them when they come out of the portal. If you get the timing down, you can attack them just as they come out of it (A single Rebellion strike is usually best for this) to parry them, which leaves them open to an attack; taking them up into the air after this is usually a good idea because they're less likely to start blocking, but at some point they will parry you, which leaves you with a small window to perform an evade, or you'll take damage. If you don't want to risk a parry, you can just evade their attack when they come out of the portal, which still gives you a window in which they won't block attacks. It's slightly smaller though. Aside from this, Arbiter attacks are generally pretty useful, and will stagger them, allowing you to combo them a bit, or finish off with Trinity Smash. When they're blocking, though, you don't really want to attack them, because they'll just keep blocking (Until they decide to parry you).

 

The Butcher (Blade man) generally requires a bit of caution to deal with, and generally quite a lot of distance, but when you know his attack timings and tendencies, you can usually stick pretty close to him and evade most of the time. You can parry all of his saw blade attacks (Even the blades he launches across the floor at the end of his 3-hit combo on Son of Sparda difficulty and above) with pretty much any weapon (Except Aquila, which doesn't parry anything in the game), if you can get the timing down. This is probably easiest with the vertical line of blades, because their progress towards you is pretty obvious, and a single Rebellion attack is fast enough that the timing is simple. The horizontal ground blades are also pretty straightforward, but the aerial blades are trickier, requiring you to jump into the air and swing your sword at the right time. Usually you should avoid these. As for attacking the Butcher directly, it is almost entirely uninterruptible, so you need to look for its down-time. Until you're comfortable with its attack patterns, the best time to do this is after it's thrown blades at you; it performs an animation where it reloads its blades, which is usually enough time for an Arbiter combo. You can usually get a strike or two in between its attacks, too. There are ways of interrupting it, however. The third strike of the basic Arbiter combo and Trinity Smash will both stagger him; the first has an advantage because the final basic Arbiter attack comes out quicker than Trinity Smash (Which requires you to pause for half a second before performing it, and then takes quite a while to strike), but you can perform Trinity Smash after two Rebellion strikes (All pause combos in the game allow you to switch weapons; you can perform two Aquila attacks in Angel mode, then pause and switch to Demon mode with Arbiter and finish the combo with Trinity Smash), which is quicker but does less damage. Finally, all fully-charge Eryx attacks will stagger him, and the fully-charged Uppercut (Hold B in Demon mode) will actually launch him into the air. Oh, and you can launch him with the Osiris Raze attack, if you release the button exactly as the second charge is ready. That's called Just Release, and the timing is tricky.

 

If you have any other questions or need any help with any of the achievements, just let me know! I know... kind of a lot about the game.

[syntheticgerbil]

Thank you for the tips. Yeah I had to stop playing almost all games for the past couple of weeks because my life got too busy, but I will probably try to finish it over Christmas break. Last time I was playing was on Dante Must Die, I think I'm somewhere on Mission 6 and I was just continuously getting enraged.

 

But those two enemies are still really giving me problems. I will have to mess around with the Butcher again, because I swear I've tried many weapons to ricochet blades and it only seems to work with a charged Osiris. The Rebellion really works? Even uncharged? The other thing about the Butcher is even when he's "downed" I can never seem to get three hits in on any weapon unless I miss the first hit on purpose and then subsequently hit him with the second and third hit.

 

On the Dreamrunner, when you say get them into the air do you mean use a weapon where holding circle (I don't know what it is on non PS3) launches you and them up in the air and then start combing or should I be jumping and then grabbing them towards me in the air when they are open?

[Synnah]

shows the timings for parrying the Butcher's blades with Rebellion. The Osiris charge you're doing is pretty easy because you can just hold it and release it when you need to parry, and it's basically instantaneous; the Rebellion parry requires no charge time, though, so if you can get the timing is pretty flexible. In terms of actually doing damage to him once he's stunned, closing the distance quickly is the key. Angel Evade is good enough for this, but I tend to use either Streak (L2+Forward, Forward+Triangle with Osiris) or Stinger (Forward, Forward+Triangle with Rebellion). Both of those will do some damage, and then you can go straight into a combo.

 

Yeah, sorry, should have specified that I was referring to the Rebellion move High Time when I was taking about getting Dreamrunners into the air. There are other ways of juggling enemies, though. Aquila's Big Slick (L2+Forward, Forward+Triangle) takes Dante into the air with multiple enemies, but is a bit inconsistent and can sometimes leave him too high to hit them. Holding the Eryx Uppercut (R2+Circle) for one or two charges will also take Dante up into the air. You can Demon Pull them into the air as well, but it takes a bit longer. You could also launch with a move that leaves Dante on the ground (Osiris Prop or Arbiter Tremor; L2+Circle and R2+Circle respectively), and then jump straight up and continue attacking.

 

Dante Must Die can be pretty frustrating until you know the most efficient ways of dealing damage to enemies; you want to be killing everything as quick as possible, either using Demon Evade and Arbiter or charged Eryx attacks, or by grouping enemies together with Aquila's Buy-In and hitting large numbers of them with things like Osiris Prop & Shredder and Arbiter's Trinity Smash. SSS runs of DMD missions on Youtube will probably give a few ideas of what works well!