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Roderick

Holland celebrates 60 years of freedom. In other news: Neo-Nazis win German election

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Ironic, isn't it? Yesterday we were celebrating the infamous operation Market Garden with truckloads of old veterans who had come to the Netherlands. And later that evening, we saw on the news how the elections in east Germany had been won by the neo-nazi party. I hope it's not just a little bit of history repeating.

The whole thing made me cringe though. In the aftermath where all the party leaders were gathered at the ZDF studios, the victorious right extremist spoke of 'a glorious day for all Germans who want to remain German', after which all the other leaders left the studio and the female host asked him angrily when he would admit to the viewers he was a neo-nazi.

Utterly terrible.

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And the guy's name is APFEL, so that doesn't help him either. And his head looks like an apfel too.

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Unbelievable...

It actually makes me sick to even think a trace of that past still exists to this day.

And to think they won an election, in Germany - that just does not settle with me at all, and makes me feel very, very uneasy...

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i saw extracts of the zdf-interview of the german right extrimist party and i must say that the german interviewer and the represantatives of the other parties acted as dumb as possible. imo.

first of all: i'm not defending this party! omg...i don't...i'm just wondering that german television condenscend to the niveau of them...

it isn't neutral journalism when the first question of the interviewer to senor apfel (omg...what a name...) is something like "herr apfel, when will you tell your electors that you are neonazi?". but the "answer" of mr apfel was even dumber than the question itself: "today is a great day for germans, who want to be germans...blablablabla". but while he was talking the representantives of the other parties were leaving! no confrontation. no discussion. just leaving! like "oh! we're so disgusted, let's go!"...in the end everything went out "good" (--> senor apfel's party = racist + insane), but just because of the fact that senor apfel didn't react to this given opportunities...

...thanks god that he is just insane (like the whole party) and not clever insane (like a little hitler would be...).

but what if senor apfel would have been a little hitler and reacted to the interviewer's first question with disrespect and quoted the escape of his colleagues with "cowardice against democracy"? then senor apfel's party probably would have earned the reputation of misunderstood + discriminated instead of racist + insane.

the fact that the german television (with millions of viewers!) gave this oppurtionity to a right extrimist party is almost scaring me more than their existence.

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Maybe. Or maybe they televised it to warn Germans that neo-Nazi's do exist. Don't forget that there's still such a thing as war-guilt in Germany, and things like doing the Nazi salute and a having copy of Mein Kampf will get you locked up.

GOD that brings back a horrible flashback of when my friend Chris did a Hitler impression on the Berlin metro in a carriage full of old German people who looked nervous every time he said the word "fuhrer".

But I'm digressing - basically, I think that Germany is the safest country on the planet from becoming Nazified. These sorts of things are happening all over the world, but just because it's Germany people make a much bigger deal of it.

*edit* Oh, I was reading this earlier and it's kind of relevent to this thread: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3663044.stm look under "SEE ALSO" for more interesting articles concerning Germany and the Nazis.

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I noticed this too. But we don't know what went ahead of this. It may very well be that they had all already figured out he was just a stark mad loony toon and decided they weren't going to waste any more energy on him. I have a strong impression that this is precisely the case. I hold German journalists higher than that. They wouldn't just send some novice to host an event of such importance as the elections.

But honestly... APFEL!

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Haha, I just downloaded the spingtime for hitler song. It's hillarious! Who said nothing good comes out of being a Nazi!?

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Pfft, details!

People always go on about how many Hitler killed, but people forget that Stalin killed more. Not that numbers matter - it was the way the killings were made that earn the Hollocaust it's dark name.

Slightly off-topic, but only slightly: I just finished reading All Quiet on the Western Front today. Brilliant book - I thoroughly recomend it to anyone.

Slightly more on-topic: I'm going to the Imperial War Museum for WW1 stuff tomorow, which reminds me that they have a brilliant display on the Hollocaust. It has survivors giving accounts all the way through it and there's one bit where you see hundreds and thousands of shoes collected from the victims. That's one of the most horrible things you can see, especially when you notice that there are children's shoes amongst the collection.

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Maybe. Or maybe they televised it to warn Germans that neo-Nazi's do exist. Don't forget that there's still such a thing as war-guilt in Germany, and things like doing the Nazi salute and a having copy of Mein Kampf will get you locked up.
I have a Mein Kampf on my shelf. I hold it right between the Holy Bible and Das Kapital.

What I find astounding is that there is such a thing as war guilt in the Japanese and the Germans, but the US has never felt it, never even considered it as applicable. After all the wars that the US led in the past 100 years, they have as much reason to as the above states.

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That's because the US has mainly won all the wars. The only war they really publicly lost was in Vietnam, and that did drew deep scars in their civilisation. But more than that I don't claim to know.

[edit]: By the way Kingz, you forgot the comma's in your sig after the thumbs. You should pay more careful attention to what you're spoofing ;)

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I have a Mein Kampf on my shelf. I hold it right between the Holy Bible and Das Kapital.

What I find astounding is that there is such a thing as war guilt in the Japanese and the Germans, but the US has never felt it, never even considered it as applicable. After all the wars that the US led in the past 100 years, they have as much reason to as the above states.

In the US, people feel guilty about taking the country from Indians Native Americans, I have noticed.

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but what if senor apfel would have been a little hitler and reacted to the interviewer's first question with disrespect and quoted the escape of his colleagues with "cowardice against democracy"? then senor apfel's party probably would have earned the reputation of misunderstood + discriminated instead of racist + insane.

Completely agree.

I mean, come on, we've obviously got some people who disturbingly enough honestly seems to want this guy as a leader. Are we just gonna ignore them? Or are we gonna tell them why they're wrong? You can't just ignore bank robbers and say "Hey! If we ignore them, maybe they'll quit!". That's not how they work! And it's the same thing with everything else!

EDIT: Oh, and doesn't germany have the strongest anti-nazi-laws in the world today? Then how can this political party exist?

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I have a Mein Kampf on my shelf. I hold it right between the Holy Bible and Das Kapital.
I don't personally see the point in people owning Mein Kampf. If you want to be reminded of the evils of mankind then there are much better books to illustrate that. Also, in case you misunderstood my point, I was saying that it'll get you locked up in Germany - like Farbor says, Germany has very strict anti-Nazi laws.

I just got back from the Imperial War Museum in London and I had a bit of extra time so I went through the Hollocaust exhibition again, which was as great as ever.

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Well, I'm not sure on the details, but I do know for a fact that it's banned from all bookshops, as well as the Wolfesntein games and anything else Nazi related.

Wave to someone in Germany and prepare to get arrested for doing the Nazi salute!

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EDIT: Oh, and doesn't germany have the strongest anti-nazi-laws in the world today? Then how can this political party exist?

i read parts of their manifesto and think (i don't know much about the german laws or politics) that this party is legal, because they don't break any law like the nsdap for instance did by killing "enemies" and breaking contracts. in their manifesto are of course some points which seem to be worrying like "germany out of the eu and the euro and back to deutsche mark" or "controlled immigration" but all the racist messages, which may cause a ban of the party, because of violence of human rights, are somewhere between the lines. afaik there are have been several attemps to ban this party, but they all failed.

it's true that you can't purchase mein kampf in austria or germany, but the rumors that you get locked up by owning mein kampf or crying heil hitler! are all beautiful nonsense.

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OK, another urban myth that is, then.
Yeah, okay, I admit it, the idea that you can't buy Mein Kampf in Germant is a complete urban myth. I mean, it's only written by Hitler. It only says how Germans are the master race and how social darwinism should be put into full effect. It wouldn't look bad at all if the country that was supposed to be ashamed of their recent past had the book widely available in stores. So yeah, just another urban myth, like the Hollocaust is.

I'm pretty sure the Nazi salute is illegal, but if it isn't then it's at the very least severely frowned upon. But if you go around immitating a Nazi they'll arrest you for "inciting racial hatred", even if they don't say they'll arrest you for saying heil hitler and owning Mein Kampf.

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Yeah, okay, I admit it, the idea that you can't buy Mein Kampf in Germant is a complete urban myth. I mean, it's only written by Hitler. It only says how Germans are the master race and how social darwinism should be put into full effect. It wouldn't look bad at all if the country that was supposed to be ashamed of their recent past had the book widely available in stores.

Why should all that matter? And I notice you said "available in stores" - it is NOT the same as "owning it". I agree that it would be strange if it was advertised in magazines, for example, but just OWNING IT, come on! The book has clear historical value.

If Mein Kampf wasn't so boring (as I have heard) I would read it. Because there are better books - and books with a wider perspective - I will most likely read some other books on this particular subject instead.

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