Architecture

Hatred: The Most Despicable Game of All Time?

Recommended Posts

I have never seen anyone that is both attempting to be punk and is effectively punk. I feel like as soon as you're trying to be punk you've already failed, which is why I see PA's paragraph about Hatred being punk to be negative and condescending. 

 

I do not seem to have the negative associations with punk that you do, I think we're talking from two pretty different foundational perceptions here. 

 

 

El Dong Bar

 

I'd get a drink there.  Also:

 

Dongle Bar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not seem to have the negative associations with punk that you do, I think we're talking from two pretty different foundational perceptions here. 

 

 

 

I'd get a drink there.  Also:

 

Dongle Bar

 

Maybe it's an age thing. By the time I really got into music, Green Day had already been considered punk and then sold out and a lot of my friends were going to punk concerts only to hate the same band a year later when they got successful. Also, it could be a Seattle thing since Grunge pretty much annihilated other music for several years around here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe it's an age thing. By the time I really got into music, Green Day had already been considered punk and then sold out and a lot of my friends were going to punk concerts only to hate the same band a year later when they got successful. Also, it could be a Seattle thing since Grunge pretty much annihilated other music for several years around here.

 

And I was trapped in the cultural desert of western Kansas growing up, so when I "discovered" punk, it was just badass (given that the only radio stations we had were country, classic rock, and christian).  I was totally divorced from any of the music scenes, cliques or evolution of those groups or genres.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In response to several questions about the creators' possible intents and the game's direction, my read on this came from the reviews of the game's flaws. The limitations placed on what it's possible to do, coupled with across the board poor execution, brought to mind reviews of branded movie tie-in games. Throughout the ones I perusedI kept feeling like I was instead reading about a crappy port of "Season of The Witch: Plaguekickers" or what have you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm hearing you when you say that silence in the face of injustice is a bad policy. I think that's absolutely true.

 

Most of the time.

 

I apologize in advance if this feels like an attack. It isn't my intent. These are just my own opinions. 

 

I feel there's a difference in Polygon calling out Penny Arcade, a media juggernaut and a major public face for gaming, and Polygon elevating Hatred out of the nothing it came from every couple of days to remind you how awful it is. As you say, Penny Arcade doesn't operate in a vacuum. They have roots in the industry and to the community as deep as any institution in videos games. Calling out their bad behaviour in the context of that influence and importance is necessary and just. And you are absolutely correct when you say that the games press has frequently dropped the ball when "nice people" do hurtful things, either because they don't understand the harm or because they're worried about burning bridges.

 

Jerry, in that very post even, likes to act like PA is just a couple of jokers making .jpgs. It's a great way of deflecting criticism: "well gosh, why're you so worried about little ol' us". But, they (or, more accurately, Robert Khoo) have built a media empire that has to maintain a reputation to continue dealing with real companies in the real world. More importantly, they see themselves as a force for good, even if their behaviour is informed by shitty prejudices and biases they aren't aware of until they trod through them and smear shit all over the carpet. To be square with their own identity they need to reconcile that self image with the feedback they get. Maybe they would like to be left alone and be spared that painful process, but they have to make at least some effort to address these things. 

 

Hatred and the devs who make it, however, have no relevance beyond the outrage they seek to generate in the games press. They have no reputation to be harmed. They can't commit career suicide as they have no ties to the greater games industry. Critically, they don't see themselves as anything other than edgy enfant terribles taking the skeleton warriors for a ride and making a buck while they're at it. It isn't like they haven't corrected their trajectory because they're not aware that what they're doing is hurtful and awful. On the contrary, every blog post, youtube video, tweet and tumblr decrying Hatred is, to them, a badge of honor. They're a cancer, but they are literally nothing without attention.

 

You can't rehabilitate cancer, you can only cut it off. 

 

Yeah, and through the course of this discussion I've realized that my problem isn't with the way that Holkins talks about Hatred per se (though I think his characterization of it as 'punk' is absurd) so much as his sneering about people who write about games, which isn't strictly relevant to the conversation about the game. So, like, a discussion for another time - or, indeed, no time at all, because the less time I spend thinking about Jerry Holkins, the better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would agree with that assessment. While I think there needs to be improvements on the way things are covered before release, he is unnecessarily snarky and unhelpful about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hatred is more like Insane Clown Posse.

 

I'd be willing to take some rhetorical ride for something more transgressive, like open season on cops/bankers/us military. Violent civil uprising set to some abrasive shit. Actual brick throwing, face smashing maniacs. Like reverse CRIME FIGHTERS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if Hatred was actually like ICP (magnets are miracles!), I'd be way more (ironically) into it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hatred is more like Insane Clown Posse.

 

I'd be willing to take some rhetorical ride for something more transgressive, like open season on cops/bankers/us military. Violent civil uprising set to some abrasive shit. Actual brick throwing, face smashing maniacs. Like reverse CRIME FIGHTERS.

 

My bf co-wrote an academic paper about Juggalo graffiti in Chickasha, OK and compared them to the vikings defacing the Hagia Sophia. Also I wish that Hatred was actually just about Jesus the whole time, just like ICP is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

haha, oh man. i like the idea of ICP (not to swat low hanging fruit, but i meant that it's just really blaze FUCK YOU cultural spite) being a defacement on human culture. good paper. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if Hatred was actually like ICP (magnets are miracles!), I'd be way more (ironically) into it.

 

Not kidding, I was super unironically into ICP around '96 through '98.  I might have to go put on the Great Milenko for the fuck of it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now