Chris

Idle Thumbs 180: Wars and Pieces

Recommended Posts

I couldn't help but picture the theoretical airport frustration sim as looking just like Rollercoaster Tycoon.  Also, it sounds just like a game that Introversion would make.

 

When everyone was saying how they can't just come on the cast and say "It was good, I liked it" about a game, I was like "Why not? That's what Nick Breckon does".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I couldn't help but picture the theoretical airport frustration sim as looking just like Rollercoaster Tycoon.  Also, it sounds just like a game that Introversion would make.

 

When everyone was saying how they can't just come on the cast and say "It was good, I liked it" about a game, I was like "Why not? That's what Nick Breckon does".

And now we know why he hasn't been on the cast recently! PURE SHAME.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking of Desert Golf, someone made this video showing all the terrain from 0 to 10,000. I can't fathom how this was produced, I hope it wasn't by recording the game and editing out everything but the transitions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the topic of Xibalba: The band that that reader mail referred to as "some metal band" is a pretty big hardcore punk band from LA. They're signed to Southern Lord and have a couple really solid albums. You can stream their most recent one here: http://xibalbasl.bandcamp.com/releases

On the topic of "Shadow of" games: There was a game on PS2 called Shadow of Rome. The subtitle of STALKER was "Shadow of Chernobyl." The subtitle of Baldur's Gate 2 was "Shadows of Amn." 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know if Chris or others will want to see this, but I found an interview with the developer of Desert Golf where he explains

the design choice behind the hole with messed up physics.

 

I'll put the link to the article and the relevant quote from him in these spoiler tags:

 

Justin Smith -

I thought nobody in their right mind would get [past hole 7000]. Only insane people would get past 3000. More people got that far than I expected. After 3000, it’s literally flat for eternity. I didn’t want people playing forever looking for something, so I put a hole in the early 3000s where you shoot the ball and the game runs a simulation for where the ball goes. If they’re gonna sink it in the hole, I randomly remove or add power to the shot. After I did that, I found the ‘impossible’ hole in the late 2000s and thought that made a better ending anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Ahh, denial in action...

 

So while I am wide open to discussion on many aspects of Ethan, the writing is not on the menu.

 

OK...so...

 

all I heard was a lot of whats but nearly no whys.

 

Teach me why you don't like my game, but keep in mind I will refuse to listen to the reason you don't like it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahh, denial in action...

 

 

OK...so...

 

 

Teach me why you don't like my game, but keep in mind I will refuse to listen to the reason you don't like it!

 

Hmm, I didn't find hard to read myself. He tuned in expecting something less conversational and more critical, and was dissapointed. I'd love for Chris to respond in more detail if he has time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The discussion about an airport game is hilarious, and the idea of playing the airport is brilliant.  It does remind me of Douglas Adams' first game Bureaucracy.

 

The player is challenged to confront a long and complicated series of bureaucratic hurdles resulting from a recent change of address. Mail isn't being delivered, bank accounts are inaccessible, and nothing is as it should be. The game includes a measure of simulated blood pressure which rises when "frustrating" events happen and lowers after a period of no annoying events. Once a certain blood pressure level is reached, the player suffers an aneurysm and the game ends.

While undertaking the seemingly simple task of retrieving misdirected mail, the player encounters a number of bizarre characters, including an antisocial hacker, a paranoid weapons enthusiast, and a tribe of Zalagasan cannibals. At the same time, they must deal with impersonal corporations, counterintuitive airport logic, and a hungry llama.

 

Also: "You'd have to call the game gamergate." Fucking crying laughing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, I didn't find hard to read myself. He tuned in expecting something less conversational and more critical, and was dissapointed. I'd love for Chris to respond in more detail if he has time.

 

He says at the end that he may have been mischaracterizing Idle Thumbs which to me he was.  It seemed like he was expecting a podcast about games criticism instead of the goofy ramblings of a fun bunch of people who mostly talk about games.  Of course there's a lot of criticism in Idle Thumbs but I wouldn't say that's what the podcast is about, if it can even be said the podcast is "about" anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like that everyone is all worked up over how stupid "Darth Insanius" is but ignores that "Darth Vader" is almost as stupid.

 

Vader.

 

Invader.

 

He invades.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like that everyone is all worked up over how stupid "Darth Insanius" is but ignores that "Darth Vader" is almost as stupid.

Vader.

Invader.

He invades.

I believe it's also 'father' in Dutch.

Edit: yep

post-5965-0-62417900-1413574924_thumb.jp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He says at the end that he may have been mischaracterizing Idle Thumbs which to me he was.  It seemed like he was expecting a podcast about games criticism instead of the goofy ramblings of a fun bunch of people who mostly talk about games.  Of course there's a lot of criticism in Idle Thumbs but I wouldn't say that's what the podcast is about, if it can even be said the podcast is "about" anything.

 

To be fair, a lot of statements or beliefs that are articulated might be difficult to wrap your head around if this was your first time listening to the podcast. Like he doesn't understand Chris stating that he dislikes supernatural stuff. I feel like I understand why, but that definitely is based on previous conversations that have happened. I don't think that's something you could fully understand just from listening to this episode.

 

So it goes, there are always moments ripe for misunderstanding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He says at the end that he may have been mischaracterizing Idle Thumbs which to me he was.  It seemed like he was expecting a podcast about games criticism instead of the goofy ramblings of a fun bunch of people who mostly talk about games.  Of course there's a lot of criticism in Idle Thumbs but I wouldn't say that's what the podcast is about, if it can even be said the podcast is "about" anything.

 

Yeah, if I was a developer who hadn't ever listed to the Thumbs, but was told that three developers and a journalist spent a bit talking about my game on their podcast, I could easily see myself having some wrong expectations about what I would hear when I tuned in.  He also lacks any history with the Thumbs and their personal preferences in gaming, which are super informative when it comes to understanding how they feel about games (a tendency to favor mechanically interesting games over narratively driven games).  Honestly, when the Thumbs talk about certain types of games (particularly narratively heavy stuff), I take their thoughts with a grain of salt.  Not because I think they're wrong, but because I know that my gaming preferences diverge from theirs sometimes.  Just like McElroy's love of the Sherlock games doesn't mean that Sean's going to end up falling in love with one. 

 

It's interesting though that the wrong expectations that the developer had about the Thumbs is in direct parallel to the wrong expectations that the Thumbs had about Ethan Carter (they talk about going into it not realizing there would be weird or supernatural elements, it's not the audience's fault that they didn't get the marketing message to forewarn them). 

 

FWIW, he pretty badly misquotes (or it's a bad typo) the Thumbs too, they say the character has a "dime store novel" name, not a "dumpster novel name."  Which if he heard dumpster, that would sound super insulting and may have framed the rest of the conversation for him.  Paul Prospero DOES sound like an old dime novel detective.  It's got the alliteration of Sam Spade.  And, if I'm remembering right, Phillip Marlowe's name is in part a reference to Christopher Marlowe, a contemporary of Shakespeare.  So it's not like using literary references for a detective is something particularly unique.  It feels like he took that pretty personally, when it sounded like a very accurate description to me.  Well, I guess that get pretty jokey and call it dumb, so that part of the conversation could be insulting.  But still, also accurate. 

 

He's obviously been on the forums, I'd love it if he popped in and chatted about it.  There's an interesting question there of when does a supernatural element work in fiction, and when doesn't it? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't if it was just me that got the impression that the supernatural stuff was disliked because it was incongruous in this game rather than it couldn't be good. Chris went into the game not even realising it would have a supernatural element, so surely that's a clue that it wasn't woven as neatly into the overall package as it otherwise could have been.

 

Someone invoked Dale Cooper from Twin Peaks as an example Chris liked, and there's an important difference in that. Twin Peaks is weird, it has normal real life weird stuff and surreal weirdness. David Lynch has weird choices permeating the entire show. Dale Cooper feels like one agent in that environment. He's not alone in his oddness, other people have powers and awareness of the supernatural so he doesn't feel out of place.

 

By contrast, Prospero sounds like he is the one example of having that special power in the game. I haven't looked into the game much but it does sound like the supernatural is entirely accessed through Prospero. He's not part of a system of powers, they're absent apart from the sequences that have the gameplay conceit where he uses his powers.

 

I don't want to sound like I'm speaking for the Thumbs, but based on what they said and what I know of the game, this is how it sounds like it is to me at least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like that everyone is all worked up over how stupid "Darth Insanius" is but ignores that "Darth Vader" is almost as stupid.

Vader.

Invader.

He invades.

I almost got into this but didn't this week. Darth (in)Vader, Darth (in)Sidious. Just... are you kidding me?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe it's also 'father' in Dutch.

That makes me want to have a Darth Ma and Darth Pa:

post-33601-0-83264900-1413580740.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair, a lot of statements or beliefs that are articulated might be difficult to wrap your head around if this was your first time listening to the podcast. Like he doesn't understand Chris stating that he dislikes supernatural stuff. I feel like I understand why, but that definitely is based on previous conversations that have happened. I don't think that's something you could fully understand just from listening to this episode.

 

So it goes, there are always moments ripe for misunderstanding.

 

 

Yeah, if I was a developer who hadn't ever listed to the Thumbs, but was told that three developers and a journalist spent a bit talking about my game on their podcast, I could easily see myself having some wrong expectations about what I would hear when I tuned in.  He also lacks any history with the Thumbs and their personal preferences in gaming, which are super informative when it comes to understanding how they feel about games (a tendency to favor mechanically interesting games over narratively driven games). 

 

Just to clarify, I don't mean to imply he's an idiot or anything.  He's clearly not familiar with the podcast and a single 20 minute segment is barely going to begin scratching the surface of what normally occurs.  He's not wrong to have the opinions or interpretation of Chris's words the way he did, he just doesn't have the whole picture and was probably expecting more of a formal critique than a casual one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to clarify, I don't mean to imply he's an idiot or anything.  He's clearly not familiar with the podcast and a single 20 minute segment is barely going to begin scratching the surface of what normally goes occurs.  He's not wrong to have the opinions or interpretation of Chris's words the way he did, he just doesn't have the whole picture and was probably expecting more of a formal critique than a casual one.

 

Oh yeah, I completely understood you and agree with that exactly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now