Jake

Twin Peaks Rewatch 2: Traces to Nowhere

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Regarding the fish in the percolator scene, I can't explain why it exists, but a friend of mine came up with a pretty good theory of how it happened.  Keep in mind that I'm very roughly paraphrasing both the show and my friend here because my Twin Peaks rewatch happened several months ago, but here goes:

 

When Truman and Cooper arrive at the house Pete is skinning a fish in the kitchen.  He then goes to the living room to talk with the guests, leaving Josie in the kitchen to make coffee for them.  Cue wacky off-screen hijinks wherein Josie doesn't know anything about coffee and assumes the fish has something to do with it.

 

It's a bit of a stretch, but I can't think of a better explanation... or any other explanation at all, for that matter.

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I think I was too harsh to this episode on first thinking about it. Listening to the cast reminds me of loads of more scenes I loved. So in conclusion: This episode wasn't underwhelming. I was wrong!!  :getmecoat

 

I had completely forgotten about the one-armed man

(is that Mike?)

and that scene was so powerful to me, where Hawk chases him into that blindingly blue room. When he opens the door and the blue blends into the scene, it's just so visually arresting.

 

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You said to go visit the filming locations, if you are near.. My brother with too much money on his hand a year or two ago, decided to take the trip from Denmark to Seattle.

 

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I was in Seattle for some months once, and did go hiking in the great nature there, but to my big regret never went and actual saw these twin peaks specific places.

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All the great talk about Josie and Joan Chen and how she felt about her character makes me think of all the unfortunate handling of minority characters on Seinfeld.

 

About her malapropisms specifically, anytime Michael Scott would make one of those in The Office...my favorite thing ever. No comment on the show's handling of them at all, just sprang to mind.

 

As I was watching Nadine's scene, I was struggling to find a way in, to not tune out.

And then I remembered that soon she will have a super-strength storyline. Ugh.

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SUPER IMPORTANT SPOILERS, DUDE!

... or not, really. Don't worry folks. It's just awful.

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This just isn't true. She doesn't "take over" the factory, she inherits it, and unless I'm misremembering something, it isn't suggested that that occurs in a devious or domineering way. And she doesn't "shut it down", she temporarily pauses production—in general out of a shared sense of civic grief, and specifically because one of her employees has a daughter who is still missing. It is a purely humane act, not the work of a hostile foreign takeover, and I think it's tough to read it otherwise. Obviously there are less sympathetic and more exoticized elements to her character that are introduced as the series go on, but I don't think this is one of them. You might be referring to this parts? But since you said "literally introduced" I assume not.

In context, this is true.

 

But, the first time you watch this, with no prior knowledge of the character, that isn't obvious. All that you see is an Asian person walking in, saying "stop working" over the protests of a white person.

 

In hindsight, you could argue that Lynch was intentionally playing with the stereotype at this point (I have a lot more thoughts about that for future episodes), but on a first viewing, it's "optics" are pretty ugly.

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But, the first time you watch this, with no prior knowledge of the character, that isn't obvious. All that you see is an Asian person walking in, saying "stop working" over the protests of a white person.

I think it's incredibly obvious, given that she straight up says "because a worker's daughter is missing" and "now you have time to grieve", or something to that effect. Doesn't she?

 

I didn't read the scene like you did even a little bit. Admittedly, I have seen the series before, but that was years ago and, honestly, the only thing I remembered about Josie is that she and the sheriff had a thing. I even forgot she owned the factory until that scene.

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Isn't she Chinese? What anti-Japanese tropes is she subverting as a Chinese character?

See Bjorn's earlier comment. See also: Alllooksame.com (which appears to be down now...)

 

Not sure how old you are (sincerely not trying to condescend here), but in the 80's Japanese takeover of American companies was a big theme, both as a thing that happened in real life, but also as something that loomed large over films and television. Films like these, and also this. (Those aren't necessarily the best examples, just the ones that sprang to mind).

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Not to belabor the point, but, starting at 31:40 in the pilot (maybe this should really be in the other thread), we see Pete sitting talking idly to himself. 

 

Catherine: Did you hear me? You can't do that to my workers. Don't walk away from me like that. Come on back here. You're not going anywhere and you aren't telling anybody anything.

Josie: Catherine, I'm sorry if this offends you, but I am the owner of this sawmill.

Catherine: And you don't the first thing about this mill. That's why I'm running it.

Josie: I've never taken this authority before. Maybe I should have.

Catherine: You're not shutting us down.

Josie: Catherine, I have the final say so. Peter. Push the button.

Catherine: Pete, don't you dare.

Peter: Shorty, tell the boys to pull the plug.

 

AFTER that exchange, Josie explains her rationale. That's why I note Lynch may have been playing with the stereotype intentionally. But, it still invokes it in a very, very direct way.

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That's fine, but it's immediately after the exchange that it's explained. It's not like it happens in the next episode. They don't even interrupt the explanation with a scene elsewhere in Twin Peaks. It's a fairly common storytelling element to introduce the conflict before explaining why the conflict exists. I believe you when you say it's possible/probable Lynch was trying to invoke a stereotype, but to anyone unfamiliar with said stereotype, it's completely lacking in any meaningful tone. Catherine comes out looking like the bad guy (which is, of course, the main intent of that scene).

 

Also, I think this is important: There's the line, "I've never taken this authority before," which indicates that she's not really the sort of person to do a hostile takeover. If she had been, this argument wouldn't even exist. It'd probably be more like Catherine seething in the background as an already dominant Josie makes the decision without any objection, or at least one that is much less pronounced.

 

Furthermore, if they did want that conflict, and if the intent was, indeed, to immediately introduce Josie as a bad person (before then turning it on its head in the second half of the factory scene), I don't think that line would exist as it does here.

 

Granted, I'm no expert or scholar on TV/film dialogue, but that's how I feel about it, anyway.

 

(Also, I'm 27. Probably old enough to be familiar with any trope related to this, except I watch very few movies, so I guess I just don't see it enough.)

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In context, this is true.

 

But, the first time you watch this, with no prior knowledge of the character, that isn't obvious. All that you see is an Asian person walking in, saying "stop working" over the protests of a white person.

 

In hindsight, you could argue that Lynch was intentionally playing with the stereotype at this point (I have a lot more thoughts about that for future episodes), but on a first viewing, it's "optics" are pretty ugly.

I totally disagree, very very strongly. It is completely impossible for me to see her action in anything other than a humane light. I am specifically talking about a first-time interpretation of it, too. There is absolutely no suggestion whatsoever that she is closing the factory for good. I know that the first time I saw this show there was absolutely no doubt for me at all about this, and the same was true the more recent time. In fact I think the only way NOT to see it favorably is if you HAVE seen more of the show and you retroactively consider this scene in the context of some of Josie's other subplots--but even then I can't see it that way. It just in no way at all carries the feeling of a Japanese (or otherwise Asian) businessperson coming in and "shutting down a factory," because it's immediately and obviously clear that she's not shutting it down for any reason other than temporary grieving. It occurs in the same episode that a school was closed, for the exact same reason, and I certainly don't interpret the principal's actions as being evocative of a rich white conservative man shutting down a public institution out of anti-government furor. In both instances, they are people who are personally affected by the tragedy and sensitive to other people's sense of grief.

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Agreed with Chris. I even remember the tone of the shots as Josie makes her announcement to the mill workers as nothing but grief-stricken, while her voice and face are empathetic towards that.

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Sure, that's fine.

It's ultimately irrelevant to the larger point that the character, on the whole, is pretty racist.

I just don't see how its racist. There are stereotypes shown, and sometimes its pretty on the nose. But her character was not written with racist intent, I don't abide with that.

Maybe I will change my mind about this going forward, but I don't see it.

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There's a theme of foreign involvement in the town, from Josie to the Norwegians (who seem stoicly businesslike in the scene before their departure). The Norwegians may have some ripples later (I haven't watched the show before), but seem to exist only to propogate odd stereotypes (is there a word for stereotypes that may not actually exist?).

 

The switch from the viewer's initial impression that Josie was a heartless businessperson to the opposite seemed very intentional, but it's a leap to think the auteurs were counting on the viewers' prejudices to support that.

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I just don't see how its racist. There are stereotypes shown, and sometimes its pretty on the nose. But her character was not written with racist intent, I don't abide with that.

Maybe I will change my mind about this going forward, but I don't see it.

This is probably not the time or place to get into racism theory and the role of intent or any of that business. Josie isn't even a particularly significant part of Ep. 2.

 

Suffice to say, it makes me uncomfortable to watch many of the scenes that Josie is in.

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I totally disagree, very very strongly. It is completely impossible for me to see her action in anything other than a humane light. I am specifically talking about a first-time interpretation of it, too. There is absolutely no suggestion whatsoever that she is closing the factory for good. I know that the first time I saw this show there was absolutely no doubt for me at all about this, and the same was true the more recent time. In fact I think the only way NOT to see it favorably is if you HAVE seen more of the show and you retroactively consider this scene in the context of some of Josie's other subplots--but even then I can't see it that way. It just in no way at all carries the feeling of a Japanese (or otherwise Asian) businessperson coming in and "shutting down a factory," because it's immediately and obviously clear that she's not shutting it down for any reason other than temporary grieving. It occurs in the same episode that a school was closed, for the exact same reason, and I certainly don't interpret the principal's actions as being evocative of a rich white conservative man shutting down a public institution out of anti-government furor. In both instances, they are people who are personally affected by the tragedy and sensitive to other people's sense of grief.

I have to humbly admit that I, indeed, did have the assumption that she was closing it down for good, probably for economic reasons. I was, perhaps, not paying enough attention but since the pilot skips around so much, I didn't assume that the school announcement scene had anything to do with the factory, while there had already been references to the sawmill approaching bankruptcy so it could be bought out (unless I really have my timeline memory jumbled).

 

A potentially interesting thought, though - you have the benefit of a previous viewing (not implying an observation bias here, but having warmed up to the tone and flow of the show) as well as having watched it initially some time ago. I've found that older shows (TP included) are more difficult for me to watch until I become accustomed to them, since the style and pace is so different from modern television (which is both more quickly paced and hand-holding). I have to wonder if I'd watched it a decade ago, if I'd have absorbed more from the pilot.

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I think if we took on two episodes per week (either as a single podcast episode or two) per week, we'd be setting ourselves up to slip as soon as we're ever slightly too busy. We know from experience (the Idle Book Club) that taking on secondary podcasts can be dangerous, and we'd rather have a fully achievable schedule that we rarely or never miss, rather than an ambitious schedule that causes us not to meet expectations.

Thank you for considering the suggestions. I'm just happy that you guys are able to squeeze in another show and appreciate the need to keep it manageable. One of the positives to the weekly roll-out (apart from the already mentioned weekly viewing just like the original airing) is that it makes each episode an event. Watched or commented upon all at once, the nuances of each would be lost in the crazy overarching plot progression. [Edit: Noting that I have three damn posts on this page demonstrates that I'm way too excited about this, so thanks for dragging me into this rabbithole]

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Regarding Josie and the sawmill. I'll leave the racial question be for a minute and point out that this whole show is patterned after a soap opera. Soap Opera's can be tough to watch and keep all the threads together. In fact, the meta-read of us getting confused by the plot is integral to the watching of the plot. Scenes in television and movies where manly men or other unlikely people are able to fill in the plot points of soap opera being watched is an actual comedy trope I have seen many times. "Now, why is Daniel kissing Madeliene? I thought he had nearly thrown her under a truck?" "No, that was Debbie her twin. Madeliene and this guy planned that together to get soul ownership of their father's estate." Not only is it confusing, but your mind tends to zone out on the threads that you particularly don't enjoy. You "go back to ironing your man's briefs" at that point? One of the great qualities about Twin Peaks that lends itself to discussion is that Soap Opera plot heavy narrative that you can clear up with your friends or other forum members.

 

For instance, the fish in the coffee...

 

was placed there by Pete Martell's wife. She asks him how his coffee tasted in a future episode. It is a very brief exchange that many will miss, but yet it causes a lot of confusion in general when it happens.

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Long time reader, first time caller!

 

About the fish in the percolator, in episode 3, when Pete's shining his shoes on Catherine's bed, he mentions "I had a problem with a fish. Took a liking to my percolator." He says it in I think a pretty accusatory tone, and then Catherine ignores it to asks what Cooper was asking Josie about, and Pete bruskly goes "Why don't you ask her yourself."

 

I took this as implying that Catherine put a fish in the percolator, maybe as petty revenge for him siding with Josie about shutting down the mill.

 

I'd love for you guys to talk more about the opening of the show. I totally thought that the first thing Jake would mention would be the R.L. Stine-esque fonts that the opening credits have. I've never really been sure how to interpret the beginning of the show, the visuals/audio/font always comes to me as "This is so 90's" and kinda cracks me up and it's difficult for me to interpret it as anything else, but surely there must be some kind of intention behind it? Is maybe the opening meant to be basically establishing a small peaceful town through the images, and the font styles are supposed to hint at something sinister about it, and the music is supposed to represent the mysterious? 

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The fish in the percolator was something that apparently happened to David at some point. I can't remember if it was Pretty As Picture or the Short Films dvd or what but I remember him talking about it in some interview.

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Long time reader, first time caller!

 

About the fish in the percolator, in episode 3, when Pete's shining his shoes on Catherine's bed, he mentions "I had a problem with a fish. Took a liking to my percolator." He says it in I think a pretty accusatory tone, and then Catherine ignores it to asks what Cooper was asking Josie about, and Pete bruskly goes "Why don't you ask her yourself."

 

I took this as implying that Catherine put a fish in the percolator, maybe as petty revenge for him siding with Josie about shutting down the mill.

 

I'd love for you guys to talk more about the opening of the show. I totally thought that the first thing Jake would mention would be the R.L. Stine-esque fonts that the opening credits have. I've never really been sure how to interpret the beginning of the show, the visuals/audio/font always comes to me as "This is so 90's" and kinda cracks me up and it's difficult for me to interpret it as anything else, but surely there must be some kind of intention behind it? Is maybe the opening meant to be basically establishing a small peaceful town through the images, and the font styles are supposed to hint at something sinister about it, and the music is supposed to represent the mysterious?

You should write this in to [email protected]!

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