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SecretAsianMan

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Yeah! Better than killing me!

Are you sure it isn't the same as killing you?

If I take you apart an atom at a time, at some point you will die, regardless of how fast I do it. The question of the nature of consciousness and the self is fascinating, though. This is probably thoroughly stupid, but the whole teleporter/clones/whatever thing makes me suspect that perhaps definitive identity only projects backwards through time, not forwards. If someone created a precise clone of me, including my exact brain structure and state, and therefore mental state, I'm not sure either of those people would hold a greater claim to my identity. Like I said, probably stupid.

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Coal, gas, wind, solar... all shit. Hydro is nice, but expensive as shit and not available everywhere.

Nuclear is the best solution, especially with thorium based reactors. If those tree hugging hippies didn't managed to kill funding after a few incidents we would have had much better and safe reactors in operation now. But instead we have ancient reactors still operational but scheduled to be shut down in the near future.

In the meanwhile, more people die and nature and society gets a greater hit due to coal and gas. Wind and solar is nice, but unreliable.

 

Fusion... I hope they can sell it.

 

ps, cold fusion is a hoax? last time I checked they we're sure if it was viable or not.

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ps, cold fusion is a hoax? last time I checked they we're sure if it was viable or not.

It was never experimentally verified by anyone, even though a lot of people tried. If it wasn't a hoax it was a colossal mistake.

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I don't think cold fusion has been explicitly disproven, but there are currently no actual methods of doing it.  The hoax part comes from an early claim by some scientist who said he figured it out but no one could repeat the process.  As a concept its still entirely theoretical.

 

Also I am secretly immensely pleased that a thread I started has somehow turned into this discussion through no will of my own.

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My housemate, who has a bet going on whether fusion reactors will happen before 2030, points out that Lockheed Martin hasn't actually explained how it works, and hasn't actually built their prototype, and plenty of other companies have made grand pronouncements that fusion is twenty years away.

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I don't think cold fusion has been explicitly disproven, but there are currently no actual methods of doing it.  The hoax part comes from an early claim by some scientist who said he figured it out but no one could repeat the process.  As a concept its still entirely theoretical.

 

Also I am secretly immensely pleased that a thread I started has somehow turned into this discussion through no will of my own.

Oh you mean...

 

THIS GUY?!

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Coal, gas, wind, solar... all shit. Hydro is nice, but expensive as shit and not available everywhere..

Hydroelectric dams destroy natural ecosystems. They're incredibly costly on an ecological scale.

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Hydroelectric dams destroy natural ecosystems. They're incredibly costly on an ecological scale.

 

But they do create a different ecosystem. And there are more options besides dams. You can also generate energy from the tides. (they also impact ecosystems, and are also costly in maintenance.)

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Are you sure it isn't the same as killing you?

If I take you apart an atom at a time, at some point you will die, regardless of how fast I do it.

 

Yeah, but if my heart stops then I'm revived, I technically died; I'll still feel that I'm the same person.

 

I take your point though - I doubt I'd have the existential nerve to do either! I'd keep it old-school, The Unteleported Man style.

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My housemate, who has a bet going on whether fusion reactors will happen before 2030, points out that Lockheed Martin hasn't actually explained how it works, and hasn't actually built their prototype, and plenty of other companies have made grand pronouncements that fusion is twenty years away.

 

I was going to mention some of this stuff, but then I realized that god damn it, this is the Good News thread, so I think I'll just be blindly optimistic that in 20 years I'll be driving a Mr. Fusion powered car and go on with my day.

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I don't think cold fusion has been explicitly disproven, but there are currently no actual methods of doing it.  The hoax part comes from an early claim by some scientist who said he figured it out but no one could repeat the process.  As a concept its still entirely theoretical.

It's not even theoretical, as there are no theories for how it could be done, it's hypothetical. In my personal opinion it is also absolute nonsense.

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Nonsense is about on point. Sure, it's theoretically possible. In the same way that perpetual motion is theoretically possible if we have access to theoretical as-yet-undiscovered elements (aka unobtanium). Math can be done working around the variables, but the variables are currently, and for the foreseeable future, fantasy.

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Yeah, but if my heart stops then I'm revived, I technically died; I'll still feel that I'm the same person.

You'd feel it, but we could make another you that would feel it, too. And there's really nothing special about the atoms you happen to be made up of at a particular time. Both would be a continuation of your consciousness, and neither would have any meaningful claim for precedence. Hence, singular identity only extends backwards through time, not forwards. So perhaps there's no reason not to do it, if you're OK with that whole metaphysical mess being on your mind. Or on my mind.

Consciousness is too weird.

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You'd feel it, but we could make another you that would feel it, too. And there's really nothing special about the atoms you happen to be made up of at a particular time. Both would be a continuation of your consciousness, and neither would have any meaningful claim for precedence. Hence, singular identity only extends backwards through time, not forwards. So perhaps there's no reason not to do it, if you're OK with that whole metaphysical mess being on your mind. Or on my mind.

Consciousness is too weird.

But that's the problem. It'd be ANOTHER you. It wouldn't be You.

 

Unless you believe in something like a soul (which who does these days am I right), then the moment You teleport by way of destroying your body and reconstructing it on the other side is the moment You die. The other you is not You. It doesn't matter if the other you has all of your memories and experiences. It's not you. It is, from that point on, a completely different person. It would be the same as making a clone, except the process involves killing the original You.

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That's a classic topic of discussion. What if you replace parts of yourself piecemeal, at what point do you stop being yourself? You certainly replace a large proportion of your cells even over the span of just a few years.

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You're you until you replace your brain.

 

EASY. NEXT QUESTION.

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How many neurons do you have to replace before you stop being yourself?

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That does happen in fact.

 

If I remember right, every single cell gets replaced at some point. That's actually how aging works.

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That's a classic topic of discussion. What if you replace parts of yourself piecemeal, at what point do you stop being yourself? You certainly replace a large proportion of your cells even over the span of just a few years.

Yes, Ship of Theseus and all that.

But that's the problem. It'd be ANOTHER you. It wouldn't be You.

Unless you believe in something like a soul (which who does these days am I right), then the moment You teleport by way of destroying your body and reconstructing it on the other side is the moment You die. The other you is not You. It doesn't matter if the other you has all of your memories and experiences. It's not you.

What's the difference, if not a soul? What is the thing that carries from the present to the future that the "other" you doesn't also have?

(I don't believe in souls.)

I mean, I agree with you in that I wouldn't step into the teleporter. But I think it would be like a branch splitting, and one of the off-shoots getting sawn off. I don't think the remaining me would be any sort of an impostor, or inauthentic, or not "Me" me.

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If teleporting kills you, it would be a pretty good suicide method that wouldn't cause unnecessary distress for your friends and family. (They wouldn't even have to know!) Of course you'd be creating another copy that would presumably also want to commit suicide, but then that one could just teleport too. Thus solving the problem forever.

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