Jake

Idle Thumbs 176: The Classic Alien Form

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There's only one possible solution here, which is that Danielle's going to need to use the Rhode Island accent at all times.

This can be arranged! 

 

YES! :tup: :tup:

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When the cast was talking about how film execs refuse to make movies for or about women, and Sean said "I know we always talk about Marvel movies," for some reason my brain filled in the implication as "as opposed to DC movies." I sort of hoped that would come up, because WB's execs have been notorious for being extremely reluctant to produce a Wonder Woman movie for increasingly bullshit reasons, despite the fact that they kind of need to if they ever want to do their big Justice League film franchise, which is why WW's first-ever theatrical appearance will be in the fucking Batman vs Superman movie.

 

 

As long as I'm bringing up stupid DC comics bullshit, this is all I could think of when Danielle started talking about fighting women in her own weight class and not holding back.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etPYl1OQoqk

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As long as I'm bringing up stupid DC comics bullshit, this is all I could think of when Danielle started talking about fighting women in her own weight class and not holding back.

 

All I could think of when she said she was interested in trying amateur boxing was

 

"And in this corner, weighing in at 120-something pounds, JUNIORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR MIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINTS!!!!!!!!" *crowd cheers*

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I guess Jake is cute. In that Karl Pilkington kind of way.

 

Now I want a podcast featuring my favorite bald, white guys: Jake, Karl Pilkington and J Allard.

post-26597-0-23146900-1411078750_thumb.jpg

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It was Jaaaaaake why does everyone think we are the saaaaaaame....

It was me not Sean ;(

It was Jaaaaaake why does everyone think we are the saaaaaaame....

It was me not Sean ;(

It was Jaaaaaake why does everyone think we are the saaaaaaame....

It was me not Sean ;(

It was Seeeeaaaaan why does everyone think we are the saaaaaaame....

It was me not Jake ;(

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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This suggestion probably doesn't alleviate all of your concerns, but with regard to the monetary angle, how about hosting things somewhere like Archive.org? That's a project set up specifically for cultural archival, and is, as far as I'm aware, funded completely non-commercially. Rights owners wouldn't profit at all from nefarious works, and they would be available as cultural artefacts in a relatively neutral and academic setting that wouldn't, for example, particularly promote those works as rad fun things that everyone can enjoy. They could still include any explanatory preambles they saw fit – cultural context and all that.

In the abstract that's a cool idea but I feel like it gets us into some issues related to freedom of speech and expression especially in regards to deeming works nefarious, offensive, and so on.

Part of the problem relates to the very old but still pertinent issue of who gets to decide all of these things and what are the consequences of granting that sort of power. It looks one way when you're on one side of the ethical/moral/informational gatekeeping role but completely different on the other end. I think about bodies like the MPAA and it makes me reluctant to endorse solutions that effectively cut off revenue sources for creators even when I find what they make repugnant or distasteful. I guess my hope is for well-intentioned creators to crowd out "bad" works in the mind-space but I can't help but feel a bit naive in hoping for this. 

 

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Also relating to what Anita was saying about the way companies refuse to take a chance on entertainment for women: the fucking worst is the way they try to decide what will sell to kids. The original pitch for Dora the Explorer was nearly impossible to sell because executives thought that a show with a Hispanic female lead would only appeal to a niche audience, which is a fucking bizarre thing to say about a show aimed at preschoolers. Monster High similarly took years to convince anyone to buy into it.

 

Worse is the very transparent way that stuff is marketed toward kids based on gender though. Watch some toy commercials sometime and see how phrases like "electronic lights and sounds" vs "magically lights up and talks to you" (oh hey, Clarke's third law) are used based on their demographic, or how literally every piece of marketing for Nerf's range of dart guns for girls depicts them wearing the included protective eyewear incorrectly as a fashion accessory instead of as safety equipment.

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In reference to the episode, here is the graphic I made for Chris:

 

3Y9R9AC.jpg

 

It's weird to hear the Danielle's knowledge about Disney World, because the same thing is crammed in my head, but about Disneyland. So when she mentioned "1992" as the opening of Splash Mountain, I was like, "wait, no, that's 1989," but we're both right, just on different coasts. It's always super exciting to hear someone who is passionate about a Disney park, because a lot of intelligent people really approach Disney's theme parks in the same way as Anita does (Baudrillard / Umberto Eco hyperreality). While that's a valid lens with which to look at Disney's theme parks, the same criticism can be applied to pretty much any form of recreation that involves make-believe.

 

I just love being at a place filled with so many people having such a good time. I love the insane attention to detail in the same way that I love it within a video game. I love how the ground and background music changes as you move from land to land in a way that's almost unnoticeable. The Wizarding World of Harry Potter (a place I have not been to) would not exist if it weren't for Disneyland, and it's amazing to be at a place that is quite different but also

. And as a place it has a fantastic way of breaking through ironic, critical distance in a way that I've seen many times in my friends and colleagues. 

 

ALSO here are some scattered notes about Disneyland's more problematic attractions:

 

The "Buy a Bride" sequence in the Pirates of the Caribbean does indeed feature shouts of "we wants the redhead," but also "Shift your cargo, dearie, show 'em your larboard side" in reference to the "overweight" animatronic, and then another pirate shouts "is it a dollar by the pound?" It's really unfortunate. 

 

Disneyland does have other questionable decisions that have not been changed: Walt Disney's Enchanted Tiki Room features what are definitely white dudes (including Thurl Ravenscroft!) doing broad stereotypes. Now, this is not nearly as bad as pirate weight shaming, but Disneyland is a place where, because of it's history, any attempt to change the attraction is met with outcry. This does not make it ok! 

 

I guess It's a Small World does feature people of all nationalities, but every winter it becomes It's a Small World Holiday, where they seamlessly mix in Christmas songs into the classic song (including, for a tiny bit, mermaids bobbing along and singing "Jingle Shells", wah waaaaahhh). I took a Jewish friend there, and she was expecting at least some reference to non-Christian faiths, but alas, even in the middle east they're pretty jazzed about Santa. During the fireworks show, however, there is a very brief clip with "Dreidle Dreidle Dreidle." 

 

I think that, if you had asked me when I was younger, I would defend Disneyland on historical principle, but if the park is going to be inclusive (even for the sake of capitalism, ugh), it should really be inclusive. I don't know how it must feel to sit in a showing of the Tiki Room and hear Wally Boag pretending to be the Spanish toucan Jose: "

". Probably you just shrug and realize that this is the way it is. I don't know if it has to be.

 

THIS ALL BEING SAID, I still think that the park is a place who's heart is overall in the right place, and it still has tons and tons of guests of all kinds, it's a meeting place for many different communities (Chris didn't mention that he fucking went on Dapper Day), and it represents a place in a lot of people's hearts of safety and familiarity. And that's wonderful.

 

OK THAT WAS A LOT.

 

EDIT (MORE? YES): Also, here is where I gave original tips for Buzz Lightyear for anyone else who is planning on going to the park, and here's Nick Breckon's score to compare to the earlier posting, (and to gloat, here's my top score). ALSO, really fantastic episode, thanks for having such a great conversation, and for being an awesome group of people who I look forward to hearing from each week.

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Also relating to what Anita was saying about the way companies refuse to take a chance on entertainment for women: the fucking worst is the way they try to decide what will sell to kids. The original pitch for Dora the Explorer was nearly impossible to sell because executives thought that a show with a Hispanic female lead would only appeal to a niche audience, which is a fucking bizarre thing to say about a show aimed at preschoolers. Monster High similarly took years to convince anyone to buy into it.

 

Worse is the very transparent way that stuff is marketed toward kids based on gender though. Watch some toy commercials sometime and see how phrases like "electronic lights and sounds" vs "magically lights up and talks to you" (oh hey, Clarke's third law) are used based on their demographic, or how literally every piece of marketing for Nerf's range of dart guns for girls depicts them wearing the included protective eyewear incorrectly as a fashion accessory instead of as safety equipment.

 

Yeah, I mean, we can bring this full circle and point out how video games didn't use to be so heavily marketed in this gendered way back in the arcade era, but that all changed when the NES showed up, and suddenly video game consoles fit into the "toys" category of something you sell to kids.

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I'm also on the do-not-edit side of the racist WB cartoon debate. In general I value seeing the original versions of things, regardless of the reasons for the edit, and I find it somewhat dishonest to try and cover those sorts of blemishes.

 

I don't really think it's about edit vs do not edit, but more about how you properly make it available without capitalizing on it.

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3Y9R9AC.jpg

 

I was secretly really hoping that Nick Breckon had opened a second twitter account for the express purpose of sabotaging Chris and Sarah's Astro Blasters run.

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I was secretly really hoping that Nick Breckon had opened a second twitter account for the express purpose of sabotaging Chris and Sarah's Astro Blasters run.

This post makes it sound like Nick is the Proto Man of Idle Thumbs.

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I am very much with the thumbs on the frustration for stories where the schlubby white dude being mentored by the far more capable non-white non-dude character only to have them stand aside for him to take his rightful plcae as the chosen one. I am dying for a film or book to reach that final act and have the more capable character go "No, you you're going to help me. You're not ready." As a schlubby white dude myself I don't like the dishonesty.

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Also relating to what Anita was saying about the way companies refuse to take a chance on entertainment for women: the fucking worst is the way they try to decide what will sell to kids. The original pitch for Dora the Explorer was nearly impossible to sell because executives thought that a show with a Hispanic female lead would only appeal to a niche audience, which is a fucking bizarre thing to say about a show aimed at preschoolers. Monster High similarly took years to convince anyone to buy into it.

 

Worse is the very transparent way that stuff is marketed toward kids based on gender though. Watch some toy commercials sometime and see how phrases like "electronic lights and sounds" vs "magically lights up and talks to you" (oh hey, Clarke's third law) are used based on their demographic, or how literally every piece of marketing for Nerf's range of dart guns for girls depicts them wearing the included protective eyewear incorrectly as a fashion accessory instead of as safety equipment.

 

In this vein, if Paul Dini is to be believed, Young Justice was cancelled because girls watched it and girls don't buy toys.

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Danielle, *please* share that Farscape skip list.  I've been meaning to watch that show for ages, was never able to stomach going through all of season one.

 

Ok! I shared this on twitter a few moments ago, but here it is. The DEFINITIVE Farscape skip list. The first season, I've highlighted what to actually watch - skip everything else.

 

Farscape is my favorite sci-fi series of all time. It's creative and weird, it does interesting, progressive things with gender and sci-fi tropes, it's colorful and funny and sometimes incredibly dark. Star Trek, it is not (though, John, the central human character, LOVES Star Trek).

But! The show really fumbled around to find its footing early on. So here are my recommendations for Watching the 1st season. Skip everything not listed here.

1. Premiere (note: this episode sucks. But you should probably watch just because it does, however clumsily, set up the entire premise of the show.)

2. P.K. Tech Girl

3. DNA Mad Scientist

4. They've Got A Secret

5. The Flax

And then, from episode 15 -- Durka Returns -- on through the end of the first season.

Alternatives! If you are enjoying yourself, and can stomach some season 1 goofiness, there are a couple of episodes that have *some* importance for later events, and they aren't bad. Add episodes 11: Till The Blood Runs Clear and 12: Rhapsody in Blue back in if you think you can handle some intense goofiness and are starting to actually like these characters as you go along.

Season 2 has a few clunkers, notably Vitas Mortis, Picture If You Will, Home on the Remains and Dream a Little Dream. Feel free to skip the hell out of them, but the show is remarkably strong outside of those outliers.

Don't skip a second of season 3. Season 3 of Farscape is my favorite sustained sequence of entertainment/art in the universe. I'm completely serious.

Season 4 has some rough patches, though by this point, you'll know exactly what you love and hate about Farscape. If you *must* know, A Prefect Murder was the only Farscape episode to bore me, and while I find Coup By Clam campy and entertaining, it's not the show's finest hour. 

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I don't really agree with the notion of "Should the really be reproducing that in this day and age though?"

 

Like I've said before, I'm of the opinion that all art, even offensive art, deserves to exist.

 

If you whitewash over everything that doesn't seem appropriate by today's standards, then, in 50 years, when what's considered appropriate will be completely different from what it is today, everything we do now will get whitewashed from history in the future as well.

 

I think preserving history is important, even the unpleasant parts.  And the idea that we shouldn't because "Well, someone might see that and agree with it.", as if someone would happen across some 50 year old movie and be introduced to the concept of racism by it and suddenly think "Well, that seems just fine to me." is kinda ridiculous.  As though we can remove racism from the world by hiding all previous examples of it.

 

Anyone who identifies with weird ol' timey racism was PROBABLY already racist to begin with.

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I don't really agree with the notion of "Should the really be reproducing that in this day and age though?"

 

Like I've said before, I'm of the opinion that all art, even offensive art, deserves to exist.

 

If you whitewash over everything that doesn't seem appropriate by today's standards, then, in 50 years, when what's considered appropriate will be completely different from what it is today, everything we do now will end up being erased as well.

 

I think preserving history is important, even the unpleasant parts.  And the idea that we should because "Well, someone might see that and agree with it.", as if someone would happen across some 50 year old movie and be introduced to the concept of racism by it and suddenly think "Well, that seems just fine to me." is kinda ridiculous.  As though we can remove racism from the world by hiding all previous examples of it.

 

Anyone who identifies with weird ol' timey racism was PROBABLY already racist to begin with.

 

I think, after having thought for a while, that the sticking point for me is not that someone's reproducing art that is espouses offensive ideas, but that someone gets to make money off of it for the sole reason that it is offensive. I mean, sure, there's art that has remained famous and popular to this day despite its problematic elements, which has a different set of issues associated with its preservation and publication, but a lot of other stuff under consideration only really holds any interest because it is offensive. Whether or not it is something you ultimately decide to be worth it, there is definitely still an ethical question of choosing to profit from something that is only profitable because it offends people. Still, with the death of the archive as a public institution, it seems like there's nowhere for stuff like that to go, so someone probably has to choose to profit from it if it is to continue to exist at all.

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