Jake

Idle Thumbs 176: The Classic Alien Form

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How cool would it be to play a Zelda game where you're cast in the role of a character who think he's the hero Link (and you assuming he's the hero), but then the eventual realization that you're not "the chosen one"? I really hope that they turn a bunch of LoZ tropes on their head for the new one and don't just retell the same story they've been telling for the past 30 years. They're finally doing something about the gameplay, so it would be so, so nice if they did he same for the story/lore.

 

What if, what if, what if AAAAAAH!!!

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I don't think I've posted in this forum before (I might have), but I just wanted to say that I am very happy and excited to see that Anita is a guest on this.  It's super cool.

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Also, what the fuck, Danielle's been to Disneyland eighty times and I've still never even gotten to go once?

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Also, what the fuck, Danielle's been to Disneyland eighty times and I've still never even gotten to go once?

 

To be fair, Danielle has done everything eighty times.

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Listened to the first twenty minutes on my way home tonight and OH LORD DO I HAVE A POST FOR YOU!

 

Ahem.

 

The art of boardgame rulebooks is very much alive and well, as evidenced by the brilliant auteur Vlaada Chvatil. I only have Space Alert and Galaxy Trucker from him, but both rulebooks are easily the best I've come across. Space Alert is structured like a training lesson for the disposable future space explorers that you play in the game. I mean, even stuff like "everyone picks a different colored player piece" becomes "My teaching assistant will now hand out colored jump suits. Yes, you will each wear a different color to make it easier for you to recognize each other on the flight." It makes what is usually a dry read actually pretty engaging and follows a logical progression so you don't end up going "wait what is that? Did I miss a rule?" and doubling back on yourself. And it's even broken down into a couple shorter tutorial games that slowly add in mecchanics so you're not just dumped straight into the deep end. But it marks these as clearly tutorial things meant to be played once and not as a "family mode" with slightly different rules that you'll end up having to relearn when you want to play the actual game. It's great. 

 

In short, eat poop Jake or Chris or whoever badmouthed boardgame rulebooks I forget now.

 

PS You all should totally fucking stream some Space Alert games. it's THE BEST.

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Not sure what's so crazy about Iron Man 3 adding in extra scenes for China.  Iron Man 3 grossed $400 million in the U.S.  It grossed $200 million in China and South Korea alone.  It makes sense that the creators keep their audience in mind when they are making the movie.

 

As a matter of fact there is very strong indication that the Chinese movie market may actually overtake the U.S. in box office over the next decade or two.  When this happens you will see a shift in the amount of asians in mainstream movies.

 

Also, I find it weird that the villian used in Iron Man 3 (Mandarin) who is Chinese is portrayed by a white guy in the movie.  From my perspective there was not enough Chinese content in the American version.

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Anyway I've got my shotgun ready to fend off the zombies at the #gamergates, which frankly I did not need right now but zombies are not known for their consideration.

 

I like how the Thumbs introduce Anita Sarkeesian and then immediately start talking about bizarre indie games. Idle Thumbs!

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Hi all. Javy Gwaltney here. I wrote The Terror Aboard The Speedwell. Just wanted to drop by and say how rad it was to listen to Idle Thumbs and Anita talk a little bit about my game.

 

Cheers.

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Oh man.. I was prepared for this one to be a little bit serious, but I was struggling not to cry laughing at some points.

The "playing to win, not to learn" thing reminded me of this http://thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/531/got-your-back which is a crazy tale of taking the game "diplomacy" to extremes. I won't spoil it.

Does costume Quest have the sibling you don't pick show up besides being rescued? I feel like that's something that would happen but I didn't get far enough into it.

Also the guy who does dresden codak did some neat Zelda concepting with the game mechanically based on Zelda, not just having her as a character swap. http://dresdencodak.tumblr.com/post/47724463171/inspired-by-anita-sarkeesians-video-game-tropes.

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Hi all. Javy Gwaltney here. I wrote The Terror Aboard The Speedwell. Just wanted to drop by and say how rad it was to listen to Idle Thumbs and Anita talk a little bit about my game.

 

Hey Javy! Good to have you here.

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I've seen that Pac-man game at a Dave and Busters before, but that was a long time ago.

 

Oh man, if there's a way to skip around and make Farscape season 1 at least borderline enjoyable, I need it in my life. I'm sure there's one somewhere on the internet...

 
We did that for Star Trek TNG, DS9, and Voyager on this forum.  We could probably do it for Farscape too.
 
 

How cool would it be to play a Zelda game where you're cast in the role of a character who think he's the hero Link (and you assuming he's the hero), but then the eventual realization that you're not "the chosen one"? I really hope that they turn a bunch of LoZ tropes on their head for the new one and don't just retell the same story they've been telling for the past 30 years. They're finally doing something about the gameplay, so it would be so, so nice if they did he same for the story/lore.
 
What if, what if, what if AAAAAAH!!!

 

I had an idea for a Zelda game where you play as Sheik.  Except instead of being the hero, you have to be like Sheik in OoT and sneak around in the shadows helping out an inept Link without being seen to maintain your mysteriousness.

 

 

Not sure what's so crazy about Iron Man 3 adding in extra scenes for China.  Iron Man 3 grossed $400 million in the U.S.  It grossed $200 million in China and South Korea alone.  It makes sense that the creators keep their audience in mind when they are making the movie.

 

As a matter of fact there is very strong indication that the Chinese movie market may actually overtake the U.S. in box office over the next decade or two.  When this happens you will see a shift in the amount of asians in mainstream movies.

 

Also, I find it weird that the villian used in Iron Man 3 (Mandarin) who is Chinese is portrayed by a white guy in the movie.  From my perspective there was not enough Chinese content in the American version.

 

The thing about the extra added scenes is that it's pretty much like Jake said.  The scenes didn't really add anything other than having 2 known Chinese actors in it and strange advertisements for Chinese products.  Even the Chinese critics didn't like the scenes.

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Listened to the first twenty minutes on my way home tonight and OH LORD DO I HAVE A POST FOR YOU!

 

Ahem.

 

The art of boardgame rulebooks is very much alive and well, as evidenced by the brilliant auteur Vlaada Chvatil. I only have Space Alert and Galaxy Trucker from him, but both rulebooks are easily the best I've come across. Space Alert is structured like a training lesson for the disposable future space explorers that you play in the game. I mean, even stuff like "everyone picks a different colored player piece" becomes "My teaching assistant will now hand out colored jump suits. Yes, you will each wear a different color to make it easier for you to recognize each other on the flight." It makes what is usually a dry read actually pretty engaging and follows a logical progression so you don't end up going "wait what is that? Did I miss a rule?" and doubling back on yourself. And it's even broken down into a couple shorter tutorial games that slowly add in mecchanics so you're not just dumped straight into the deep end. But it marks these as clearly tutorial things meant to be played once and not as a "family mode" with slightly different rules that you'll end up having to relearn when you want to play the actual game. It's great. 

 

In short, eat poop Jake or Chris or whoever badmouthed boardgame rulebooks I forget now.

 

PS You all should totally fucking stream some Space Alert games. it's THE BEST.

 

I've played Space Alert, but never actually read the rulebook, and while I've heard lots of people talk about Vlaada's rulebooks very positively, that honestly sounds awful to me. The reason being something that Rob Daviau has mentioned a lot when talking about rulebooks: they have to serve two very different purposes, first teaching you the game and then being a reference when you want to check a rule more in depth. Vlaada's books sound like they are terrible for that second purpose (also, I find it's often difficult to accurately convey rules in a narrative voice.) Honestly, I think Catan has the best approach here: part of the book teaches the game in a nice, ordered, logical progression and then the back ten pages describe each element of the game in more detail for easy reference.

 

All that said, the worst thing about most rulebooks tends to be the translation. If international publishers paid more attention to hiring good translators (or paying the ones they've got enough money to make them care) that would make rulebooks, like, 75% better.

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he thing about the extra added scenes is that it's pretty much like Jake said.  The scenes didn't really add anything other than having 2 known Chinese actors in it and strange advertisements for Chinese products.  Even the Chinese critics didn't like the scenes.

 

 

Some critics may not have been a fan of the extra scenes but the fact remains that it's not "crazy" or weird.  Every movie is filled with deleted scenes, scenes that could have been in the movie and were shot but for one reason or another never made it into the final edit.

 

Some people were saying that Transformers 4 catered too much to the Chinese market by having a large portion of the film set in China.  Whether people like it or not this will continue to happen as the asian market grows in influence.

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what about a zelda where link is a goron for the whole game

 

wait... how do gorons reproduce?

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To be fair, Danielle has done everything eighty times.

And it was Disney World she went to.

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Some critics may not have been a fan of the extra scenes but the fact remains that it's not "crazy" or weird.  Every movie is filled with deleted scenes, scenes that could have been in the movie and were shot but for one reason or another never made it into the final edit.

 

Some people were saying that Transformers 4 catered too much to the Chinese market by having a large portion of the film set in China.  Whether people like it or not this will continue to happen as the asian market grows in influence.

 

But they're not even like deleted scenes that got left out.  They weren't directed by Shane Black and were basically there because China paid to have them there.  It's pretty blatant pandering to an audience who saw right through it.  I agree that the Asian market is being a much larger influence but I don't think you gain meaningful ground with token scenes of famous actors in cameo roles.

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But they're not even like deleted scenes that got left out.  They weren't directed by Shane Black and were basically there because China paid to have them there.  It's pretty blatant pandering to an audience who saw right through it.  I agree that the Asian market is being a much larger influence but I don't think you gain meaningful ground with token scenes of famous actors in cameo roles.

 

 

China's influence was much more than just the extra scene.  The script and various plot points had to be changed and vetted by Chinese censures to ensure that the film could be shown in China.  China only allows 34 foreign films to be released in China every year, so blockbuster films are very cognizant of what they need to do to ensure that they are shown in China.

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I've played Space Alert, but never actually read the rulebook, and while I've heard lots of people talk about Vlaada's rulebooks very positively, that honestly sounds awful to me. The reason being something that Rob Daviau has mentioned a lot when talking about rulebooks: they have to serve two very different purposes, first teaching you the game and then being a reference when you want to check a rule more in depth. Vlaada's books sound like they are terrible for that second purpose (also, I find it's often difficult to accurately convey rules in a narrative voice.) Honestly, I think Catan has the best approach here: part of the book teaches the game in a nice, ordered, logical progression and then the back ten pages describe each element of the game in more detail for easy reference.

 

All that said, the worst thing about most rulebooks tends to be the translation. If international publishers paid more attention to hiring good translators (or paying the ones they've got enough money to make them care) that would make rulebooks, like, 75% better.

 

Space Alert actually comes with a second reference rulebook for just that! 

 

Eventually you get used to reading them and they become exciting as you can see how the mechanics intertwine and what kinds of cool stuff they can let you do and how and why. Boardgames really helped me appreciate video games more, making me pay attention to the gameplay mechanics and choices. It's really neat being able to see a game in the rules, like The Matrix or something. 

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I am only about a third of the way through this episode, and am amused by how much Nick is getting dumped on regarding his Disneyland behavior.  I'm picturing Sarkeesian sitting there thinking "Who the hell is Nick Breckon?"

 

Also I've only ever heard Sarkeesian talk about gross AAA games I have no interest in so it's cool to hear her talk about playing obscure festival and board games in the Idle Thumbs house style—and do a good job of it!  Chris didn't understand her description of the mechanics of Guts to Glory but I thought it was very clear.

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I don't think I've ever heard Chris talking about board games, so maybe he's just not very familiar with many board game mechanics? I found the description pretty easy to follow, but I play a lot of board games.

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Dear Danielle, how awful is it that the queue reorganization after the introduction of Fastpass has ruined the ability of today's youths to be able to engage in knowledgeable arguments about the left vs right sides of Space Mountain?

Also yes I have also had the same "oh we're going on vacation!" "ooh, where are we going?!" "Disney!!" "....oh. again? well, that'll be fun. I guess." conversation with my parents.  (Joke's on me, I guess, since I've been back there like 6 times on my own.)

 

Also this whole discussion prompted me to go try to track down my Walt Disney World Forever CDs, so thanks for that.  (In the late 90s they had these kiosks where you could pick a bunch of park music (including like incidental background music, stuff that hadn't been released on any CDs and would likely never be) and burn your own CD which was super great as a kid who had been there Too Many times. Unfortunately they didn't have everything, some of the track names were relatively vague, and they'd cap you off at 10 tracks.  I remember one of mine, I picked a track titled "Walt Disney World Railroad" which was like 15 minutes long (gotta max out that CD space!!) and was all excited to have the full spiel for the railroad, but when I got home and put it in my CD player it was just 15 minutes of NOW BOARDING calls from every single station in the park. :nodance: )

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China's influence was much more than just the extra scene.  The script and various plot points had to be changed and vetted by Chinese censures to ensure that the film could be shown in China.  China only allows 34 foreign films to be released in China every year, so blockbuster films are very cognizant of what they need to do to ensure that they are shown in China.

 

Your posts aren't really making it seem any less weird to me, unfortunately.

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