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What if I want that feeling?

 

I was part of it during my 3rd and 4th grade... like I had a homeroom teacher (who basically taught everything in Korean school at that time) who was exceptionally into nationalism and literally told the class that our role model should be German Shepard - very well trained and following orders well.  Of course I ate it all up cause why not.  I'm a Korean which meant I should serve my glorious country cause Koreans are so smart look at how small it is but we are doing so well unlike those stupid Chinese or asshole Japanese who are only doing well cause they stole everything from us blah blah blah.  Looking back boy was it fucking stupid.  I mean I like dogs but that was some bullshit.

So I say you might want it but it'll probably only blind you as I certainly didn't find that sense of belonging worthwhile in the end.

 

Good thing I had a straight up communist father to later balance out that ultra nationalistic bullshit fed to me.

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Yeah but aren't they all different shade of the same cloth?  Like the reason-less sense of belonging just because we were born here or speak x or eat y.

 

Aren't we all ultimately alone, as it is destined to be as humans?  /criesalone

 

 

I guess that's another similarity: most people are really bad at placing accents and will make weird guesses based on stereotypes they have in their head.

 

I tried making fun of that analogy but dang, it's good.

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Who says it has no reason? If that were true, then nobody would be upset at cultures dying or changing or being stolen and mutated.

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Better to have loved and lost something something.

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If you'll permit, I'd like to push my gay agenda.

 

If you want to belong to a culture, the LGBT community is an awesome one. We've produced a huge range of art, music, films, literature, poetry, theater, and more. We have a history of riots and clandestine meetings and plague and parades. And best of all, our culture extends to other nations! Go to France and see your people in Le Marais! Or to Japan, in Ni-chōme! 

 

Try turning gay! You can't choose your orientation, but you can choose to try to choose. Who knows, you might like it. And then you'll finally belong and also not belong because holy shit so much of the world does not give a fuck about non-straight people.

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If you'll permit, I'd like to push my gay agenda.

 

If you want to belong to a culture, the LGBT community is an awesome one. We've produced a huge range of art, music, films, literature, poetry, theater, and more. We have a history of riots and clandestine meetings and plague and parades. And best of all, our culture extends to other nations! Go to France and see your people in Le Marais! Or to Japan, in Ni-chōme! 

 

Try turning gay! You can't choose your orientation, but you can choose to try to choose. Who knows, you might like it. And then you'll finally belong and also not belong because holy shit so much of the world does not give a fuck about non-straight people.

 

Seconded! :D

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Really interesting, Bjorn. Although the scorn for the New York Times caught me off-guard. You don't have to read the article I linked, obviously, but I'm bummed at the disparaging remarks made against it, especially since the author seems to agree way more with you than with anything I've been saying. I don't think it's fair to set up a choice between your friend's story and what someone might write on the subject of race in a big publication, because that seems like a backwards way of correcting privilege. In a just world, there wouldn't be a choice, and someone with your friend's background could share a byline with the woman who wrote that article.

 

(Unless you think that institutions like the New York Times are inherently oppressive and no number of minority writers will change that. If you do -- and I'm sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth here -- than fair enough. I don't happen to, so I'll try and politely raise my objection. I suppose it's a display of my own bias that the part of your piece that I chose to respond to was your criticism of the NY Times, but I honestly don't have anything else to contribute to your friend's story except to say that I'm sorry the world exists they way it does and I want it to get better for everyone.) 

 

I hadn't replied to this, in part because my thoughts on the media (particularly certain iconic traditional media) are long enough to fill a book.  But I thought it was a question worth answering.  In short, I have more or less lost trust in a majority of news institutions (there are still individuals I have trust in, even within some of those institutions).  And part of that lack of trust is inside knowledge (from having been a journalist and knowing journalists who've worked all over this country) of multiple publications, TV shows and websites of how voices are selected.  I'll be honest, I have a lot more knowledge about the Times than I do the New Yorker, so the fairness of lumping them together may be questionable.  But this popped up today, Neil deGrasse Tyson's rejection of the offer to write a Times op-ed on Affirmative Action, and speaks at least some to the reasons I've lost respect for a place like the Times.

 

This month has also seen the remembrance of Times editor Jeff Schmalz, who was basically single handedly responsible for changing the Times (and by extension, many other publications) coverage of AIDS/HIV.  That didn't happen until Schmalz got HIV and was forced to out himself to his bosses because of deteriorating medical conditions.  The Times didn't particularly care about AIDS until one of their own had it.  I think that continues to be true of places like the Times to this day.  (I recognize some personal hypocrisy here that I've admitted to caring about certain issues because of personal connections, but I'm also not in charge of one of the most important news sources in the world). 

 

I also have some personal animosity towards some of the national coastal news sources, whose coverage of "fly over country" usually ranges from silly to insulting, and rarely is accurate and impressive.  And thus also contributes to their the lack of trust in their coverage.  Election season usually increases this animosity.

 

Even within somewhere like The Times, I'm sure there are many examples of decent representation.  But at the end of the day, I view virtually all traditional news outlets as being businesses whose best interest lies in maintaining the status quo.  And that means that there ends up being a bias in voice selection over time, and thus my trust is eroded in them. 

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I'm glad a space like this exists. I'm glad it will continue to exist. I'm glad that things stay largely civil even in clearly opinionated and even sometimes heated disagreement. I certainly feel some responsibility for causing this discussion to blow up beyond its intention, and I know that I am not the most delicate conversationalist all the time. I continue to feel, as wonderful as this community is, that sometimes our safe spaces here don't have the patience for education, and sometimes effort gets pushed back as not being "enough". It's not unjustified! Someone constantly vigilant in other facets of their life shouldn't have to deal with it constantly here too. Similarly, I sometimes feel like the only logical conclusion of the social justice thread is to naturally end with condemning anything that could be an injustice because missing something feels like you're not being diligent enough.

 

I have some thoughts about what my "culture" is that I haven't talked about, because I haven't coalesced all my thoughts into something coherent (like that ever stops me). I'm at a weird intersection between being an American white male, the safest of all possible spaces at all times with a culture that is so overwhelming it sometimes feels like it doesn't have a heritage, and my cultural heritage of being an Ashkenazi Jew, one of the smallest cultural/religious groups in the world. It's something I don't think about all the time, but I consider it deeply when I do.

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To be clear, I didn't say there wasn't an American culture (I think there is, but it's more regional than widespread, for the most part). I said I don't identify with it. It's not my culture. It's not one I belong to.

 

For example!

 

 

 

I can name a couple folk heroes but I don't care about any of them. They're also so completely unimportant and never come up in every day life. I think they did more when I was younger, in movies and junk, but now they're nothing.

 

I... don't think that's traditional dress, so much as it was the fashion at one point, and much like all fashion, it comes and goes. I've never worn a leather jacket in my life.

 

I don't give a shit about Thanksgiving. Its entire purpose is to eat a lot of food. It's also ostensibly about "giving thanks", but, well, since this is America and our culture is over-eating, nobody cares about that part. I like eating, and I "celebrate" it by inviting people over (or going somewhere to meet people) and eating a lot of food, but I could do that any time, and I often do.

 

Those things exist, but they aren't mine. Also they feel largely superficial, to me, like they're not strong elements of culture, they're just something America pooped out to say "yeah we have something too". That's not entirely fair, I know, but that's how it feels.

 

To reiterate: I'm not saying America doesn't have culture. I'm saying it's not my culture. My lamentation is entirely for my own personal lack of identification with any form of culture. I am nothing.

 

 

Oh, sorry, I feel like I understand you better now. I guess part of what I was trying to say was that it's normal to not feel part of your culture. Like, my whole point with traditional dress was that most people don't wear their "traditional dress", that yeah, it's just picking a fashion that country had at one point in time. When you're inside, it can be so default and unchosen that it seems like background, not self. 

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On the one hand, I understand what you're saying. But on the other, I've given this a lot of thought over the years. I am aware of many of the cultures that surround me, but, like I said, they aren't mine. There are definitely groups that an outsider might lump me into from observation alone, but I can say now that there's not a single one they would point at that I wouldn't respond with, "Yeah, well, that's not me." It's an incidental inclusion, rather than a sense of belonging. Maybe the "Idle Thumbs" culture, hah, but as I alluded to a few pages ago, I'm not even feeling that, lately.

 

Meanwhile, reading this thread and links posted in this thread, it's obvious that a lot of people very strongly identify with various cultures and subcultures. It's... unfortunate that it seems like a lot of that is almost a forced feeling, stemming from oppression and bigotry. Like people are backed into solidarity with one another, until they're strong enough to fight together. I know that's not entirely accurate and also not all cultures are forced to grow in this way, but I do think a lot of these issues sort of make people stand their ground, thus firming their own sense of self and surroundings. I know this because I've experienced it first-hand from time to time. Just never to the degree of, well, you know.

 

Even knowing that, it doesn't stop me from feeling... left out? Alone? I don't know.

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I assume there is a spectrum. Is a person gay if they happen to fall in love with someone of the same sex? I don't know. I know that I tend to be sexually attracted to a few members of the opposite sex, but I accept the possiblity that I could some day be sexually attracted to someone of the same sex. I think people experience sexual attraction (especially its intensity) in a multitude of ways. I'm sure a lot of people have very passionate opinions on what makes someone gay, but I doubt there is enough of a consensus that I would be willing to police anyone's choice to identify themselves as "gay".

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I assume there is a spectrum. Is a person gay if they happen to fall in love with someone of the same sex? I don't know. I know that I tend to be sexually attracted to a few members of the opposite sex, but I accept the possiblity that I could some day be sexually attracted to someone of the same sex. I think people experience sexual attraction (especially its intensity) in a multitude of ways. I'm sure a lot of people have very passionate opinions on what makes someone gay, but I doubt there is enough of a consensus that I would be willing to police anyone's choice to identify themselves as "gay".

 

Someone's romantic attraction doesn't have to line up with their physical attractions. You could easily identify as romantically attracted but asexually inclined in one direction.

 

Anyway I think I've felt differences in culture within NZ and Australia. But also further afield in SE Asia. Even a place like Singapore which has roots in an English + Asian culture still feels rather distinct despite most people speaking english.

I think whatever culture I do belong to it's almost certainly been influenced by an internet culture. I'm starting to hear the phrase Post Internet around and it does make a kind of sense as a descriptor.

Anyway I remember hearing the cultural differences between states of America being similar to the differences between European nations and so I'm slightly surprised that people haven't felt cultural differences while travelling. Although to be fair my brief time around one patch of the US felt similar enough but we mostly blitzed through places around the south west.

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I'm kinda chuckling about LGBT culture since it's very hard to have a culture based around something very discrete like sexuality. How do you build a culture around that? I historically know what it's looked like but the issue we have around that now is that it's still largely white cis gay dudes who are in a certain income bracket and the rest of us are just not represented very well. Which is fine if we're talking just a "culture" (vs. social initiatives) because I'm not only bisexual at the end of the day. But given I just came from a gay gaming con, it was very apparent that I share way more in common culturally with gamers vs. gay people in general when it comes down to culture. The intersections of being a woman, being bi, etc. felt very starkly apparent. 

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I've been part of a melting pot community for younger queer peeps. I'm not sure if I could exactly call it a culture outside of just a forum. But across the breadth of them I did come across more of a gay culture than 'A List' queers doing coke on fire island.

But this could just be me being over protective.

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I'm just saying that cultures have codified codes of behavior, shared interests and that's not something automatically happening if you group everyone by specific identity stuff like sexuality. I'm friends with a very high number of LGBT people but I'd say the culture we share is more often our hobbies vs. our sexualities. 

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I don't know where a link like this would belong but this is really interesting:

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com%2F%2Fnews%2Fcanada%2Fbecoming-disabled-by-choice-not-chance-transabled-people-feel-like-impostors-in-their-fully-working-bodies

 

I remember reading about this condition in a newspaper about 17 years ago and being fascinated by the fact that someone could almost hate one of their limbs, that having a leg or arm could upset them.

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That's essentially what a credit union is, right?

I was trying to research the answer to this question last night and I think that this is partially true.

So from my understanding, a credit union is basically a not-for-profit, member owned money loaner, but then when you ask yourself "Why would someone use a payday-lender instead of a credit-union?" the credit union doesn't fill that need entirely. I think that you can still get a payday-loan when the credit-union says no (I mght be wrong about this). So what I'm wondering is what a member-owned, not-for-profit that gives out high-interest, short-term loans would look like. It's counter-inntuitive at first, but since people still use pay-day lending, I think there is potential to make those services obsolete with non-predatory practices.

Edit: I looked into it a little more and some credit-unions offer "payday alternatie loans" and one that is branded as "q-cash" which offers small loans ( something like $1000 to be paid in a month) that only costs a $20 fee and a 28%apr for members. This is much better than higher fees, the average of 400% apr and having to pay it back in two weeks.

So I'm still trying to figure out why people still use things like payday-lenders and car title-lenders (since it seems like credit-unions offer much more helpful services).

Another addition:

I just found this article which is kinda what I was looking for in tge first place. i had never heard of "community development credit unions" (CDCUs).

http://inthesetimes.com/article/18457/nycs-credit-unions-give-mom-and-pop-stores-a-chance-despite-gentrification

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Credit unions are selective in various ways who they let in as well. They are able to offer good deals to members because they weed out most of the high risk folks. So for marginalized people, they're not really an option. By the same token, a co-op lender that specialized in payday loans would have a lot of high risk members, and probably not be able to offer any where near as great of rates. Hopefully, still better than the current Payday loan crap though.

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Resurrecting the Social Justice thread after half a year of dormancy to remind everyone that, with the ever-present help of mainstream media, the academy is still shadowboxing with the concepts of safe spaces and trigger warnings and, somehow, still getting its butt kicked. The latest incident is the dean of students from the University of Chicago sending out a preemptive letter to incoming freshman, of all people, declaring the institution's unilateral rejection of any concept like those above that could conceivably impinge on academic freedom: http://www.thetattooedprof.com/archives/650

 

Of course, it's always fun to watch colleges and universities choose to assert their relevance to current discourse by positioning themselves as bastions against anything that wafts too much of social justice, since it just proves that they're dinosaurs that had no problem with content warnings when they were called ratings or safe spaces when they were men's-only clubs. The greatest of their luminaries pen jeremiads about the cowardice inherent in allowing Donald Trump a platform on the media while reserving their collective right to invite Milo Yiannopoulos or Ben Shapiro to have a platform on campus. There are no words.

 

 

EDIT: Ah, the dean's bizarre shot across the bow makes more sense now, after this article saying that donations are sinking across the board from alumni alienated by the new generation's passion for activism: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/us/college-protests-alumni-donations.html

 

EDIT EDIT: And a Storify from a former University of Chicago student body president completes the picture. University administrators, dealing with pressure from the students on sexual assault policies and campus policing transparency among other things, are trying to change the conversation to be about student entitlement because they refuse to be held accountable for their institution's decisions: https://storify.com/chewinchawingum/no-safe-spaces-except-for-those-in-power

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