baekgom84

Consider Phlebas

Recommended Posts

I was going to make this thread about Banks in general, but considering this is the first and only book I've yet read of his Culture series, I figured I'd limit the discussion to it. Banks obviously has a wonderful reputation in sci-fi circles, and I picked this as my entry point into his works simply because it comes first chronologically, but in hindsight that may have been a mistake. Frankly, I didn't much care for this book at all, and it became a real slog for me just a couple of chapters in. The plot seemed completely aimless at times, and the characters weren't much better; Horza's behaviour in particular was really inconsistent, and many other characters seemed to either lack development, or exist as one-dimensional caricatures. But for me, the most difficult thing to get past was the writing. Some of Banks' descriptions of action and locations were so difficult to parse that I often lacked a clear sense of what things looked like or even what was happening, and some of the dialogue was pretty awful as well. I had to really push myself to get through the final couple of chapters, although it picked up a little bit towards the end.

 

I've heard that this is far from his best work, and it might be better to read something like Excession to get a better understanding of what he's all about. I'm still interested in reading more of his stuff simply because it's so highly regarded, but this first impression has definitely tempered my expectations. Is his other stuff really that much better than this book?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this was my only Banks, too.  I found the last section to be the most difficult to read, since it was just a protracted chase and fight with two unstoppable Idirians.  I felt like I understood these pursuers better than any of the main characters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This was my only Banks too. I remember things just happening so that someone could look cool and having problems with the way he wrote female characters. Some of the political parts of the book were interesting enough, but it was all presented in a very superficial way that didn't really convince me that Banks had anything value to say about it. I don't really have strong memories of it since I just listened to the audiobook once while I had a data entry job, but it was bad enough that I didn't seek out anything else he's written.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I almost didn't read the other books in the series after reading this one, I just assumed they weren't going to be for me. I'm really glad I kept going. This is the weakest book in the Culture series, by far. Don't be afraid of jumping around a bit, these books aren't really serialized, they are mostly standalone books that happen to occur in the same universe. Read Use of Weapons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These first three Culture books are all I've been reading for the past few months. Consider was by far the weakest, and I actually had to force myself to finish it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Use of Weapons is usually the recommended starting point to the Culture books. It's definitely one of my favourites. Phlebas doesn't even register in my memory somehow, though I've read it at least twice by now. I revisit the Culture books every so often, it's a nice place to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm actually kind of glad to hear that most people struggled with Phlebas. Based on people's recommendations it sounds like Use of Weapons is a good place to go next, so when I get in the mood again I'll pick it up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've probably come to this conversation too late, but Phelbas is certainly not one of Bank's more accessible novels. If you are wanting to get into the Culture then I would recommend starting with The Player of Games. It much more accessible, give much greater clarity to what the Culture is, the interactions it has between the Minds, Drones and humans (both citizens and Special Circumstances) and is a rollicking Good tale in and of itself. Excession was certainly the best Culture Novel but it'll help if you have that grounding first.

use of Weapon me is great but very dark. A lot of people will find it an acquired taste I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just finished this and I'm glad I'm not the only one who had problems with it. My complaints are basically identical to what's already been expressed here. My favourite part of the book by far were the appendices - I like the world building a lot, but the prose, plot and characters just weren't doing much for me. I bought a three-pack with this, The Player of Games and Use of Weapons, though, so I'll stick with it and read those.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd recommend reading the Culture books in order of publication, though that's how I prefer to consume most media anyway. Consider Phlebas was definitely the hardest Culture book to get through for me as well, but it makes an interesting contrast to the rest of the series which have far more insights into the Culture itself and take place more or less from the Culture's point of view.

 

I'd actually strongly recommend reading Player of Games next. It provides a far better look at what the Culture is and is like, and is probably the most narratively straightforward book in the series. It's also quite a breezy, fun read.

 

I'd also recommend not reading Look to Windward until you have at least another one or two of the intervening novels under your belt. LtW is presented as a sort of distantly removed coda to Consider Phlebas and I think works best with the context of the preceding novels.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've only read the first 3, but I really liked CP as a rollicking space adventure, but thought it lost a bit of steam in the final 3rd, when they got to Schar's World. I think it's a good entry to the series (as far as I know) in that it's pretty straightforward, compared to Use of Weapons.

 

CP is kind of Mass Effect, where Player of Games is later Star Trek TNG but with DS9's Section 31 stuff.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd recommend reading the Culture books in order of publication, though that's how I prefer to consume most media anyway. Consider Phlebas was definitely the hardest Culture book to get through for me as well, but it makes an interesting contrast to the rest of the series which have far more insights into the Culture itself and take place more or less from the Culture's point of view.

 

I'd actually strongly recommend reading Player of Games next. It provides a far better look at what the Culture is and is like, and is probably the most narratively straightforward book in the series. It's also quite a breezy, fun read.

 

I'd also recommend not reading Look to Windward until you have at least another one or two of the intervening novels under your belt. LtW is presented as a sort of distantly removed coda to Consider Phlebas and I think works best with the context of the preceding novels.

 

 

Look to the Windward is definitely a book whose enjoyment of is dependent on having read a few of the culture novels. Abigail nussbaum has reviewed the entire series and is definitely worth reading. Her aside about the importance  of excesion to understanding the series as a whole is very interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's already been said, but Consider Phlebas is by far the most atypical of the Culture books. I'd really start at The Player of Games, which is the second book, and come back to Phlebas later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't remember much of the books but like others here I struggled and it stopped me reading any more of the series. So I may have to revisit it now that I know it's not just me not getting on with it and that the sequels are much better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's also worth noting that Consider Phlebas was written partly as a criticism of the tendency of 80s SF to feature Noble Religious Freedom Fighters modelled on the Mujahideen, without considering the less positive aspects of their culture compared to the Western Democracies they were often contrasted with. (In a sense, it's somewhat prescient of resulting issues in the Middle East as a result of the similar political blindspots our governments had.) Thus, CP has the hero start out as working with the "conventional" good guys of the time, but discover that the "bad guys" (The Culture) have their own positive sides.

Without that context, it doesn't work as well...

 

(That said, I do consider The Player of Games a much more accessible introduction to the Culture - although, I entered with Excession!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Consider Phlebas is an interesting book, but it is not a good book. It is not a very strong story, but the ideas presented are often delightful. And there's a whole bunch of them. Personally I felt it would have worked much better as a collection of short stories focusing and highlighting those ideas. I also agree with others that the Player of Games is probably the best book to start with, and one of his best works all in all.

 

I would also recommend anyone who likes the Culture novels to try his non-SF works. They are varied and some of them are very powerful. Admittedly a lot of his early work is concept-heavy, but I think Banks pulled it off enjoyably and very well. Some of my personal favourites are Song of Stone, The Bridge and Espedair Street. The last is the most accessible of his works, I think. Or at least less gothic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually think that Banks' best SF work was Transitions (which was marketed as an Iain Banks book in some territories, even), although it's quite different to the rest of his work, and fairly clearly channelling a lot of Michael Moorcock (and my second favourite is a tie between another of his non-Culture SF novels - Against a Dark Background - and The Player of Games). That said, my first entry into Banks' work was Excession, which no-one really recommends as an intro to Banks, Culture or otherwise, and I managed fine. (In retrospect, though, I do think The Player of Games is probably the best Culture introduction, with something like Espedair Street, or The Crow Road as introductions to Banks' non-SF work. I will say that Banks' clearly had some particular favourite plot devices, especially after writing as many novels as he did, and there's definitely a point you get to where you can predict twists considerably ahead of time. I think that might actually be why I prefer some of his non-Culture works to the Culture stuff - working outside of his favourite setting, he's a little harder to predict, and working a little harder to compensate.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've only read The Quarry of his non-Culture books, but I found that one to be excellent. I'm slowly working my way through all his stuff because it has yet to disappoint.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For anyone getting confused, Banks is credited as "Iain M. Banks" on his sci-fi novels and simply as "Iain Banks" for his non-genre stuff (with at least that one exception mentioned by aoanla). They are the same guy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Bridge is absolutely brilliant. That was the book he wrote right before he started publishing SF, and it shows since there are a few elements that end up in The Culture. I really do need to get back to reading his stuff; other than The Bridge I've only read The Wasp Factory and The Crow Road.

 

Excession was my favourite Culture novel. It's a bit weird because I didn't really like any of the human characters that much, but I love everything involving Minds and that was enough that I could ignore the other parts. I tried to get through the later Culture books but I gave up halfway through The Hydrogen Sonata. The later books in the series get so long, and comparatively little actually happens in them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now