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JonCole

"Ethics and Journalistic Integrity"

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Isn't trolling by its very definition abuse? Sure some kinds may be more palatable than others, or perhaps less harmful, but the intent of a troll is to derail the discussion and launch a personal attack on the side they are trolling. I can't think of, or imagine, any instances of trolling where this is not the case.

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Some people use the word trolling simply when someone is being sassy or salty, or even when making a very obvious joke and the derailment of a thread thing as a troll's objective is a first for me, I always thought it was about pushing your buttons on purpose?

 

To others "trolling" seems to go from benign joke or sassiness to online abuse and treats or worse. But while some people are called trolls for simply misquoting and misspelling on purpose, I'm pretty sure that no matter what your personal definition of troll is, here where are simply talking about the aspect of online abuse they have?

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Isn't trolling by its very definition abuse?

 

That could well be. There have been calls to abandon the term 'trolling' altogether for that reason – IIRC, Zoe Quinn's among them.

 

If all trolling is abuse, the word trolling is nothing but a trivializing euphemism that we may have to abandon. I'm not yet sure that's the conclusion to draw. I'm thinking more of a spectrum that ranges from the actually harmless via clear cut yet legal abuse to the completely illegal. "Trolling" may encompass all of that, and I guess individual definitions vary from person to person (and consequently, from dictionary to dictionary).

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That could well be. There have been calls to abandon the term 'trolling' altogether for that reason – IIRC, Zoe Quinn's among them.

 

If all trolling is abuse, the word trolling is nothing but a trivializing euphemism that we may have to abandon. I'm not yet sure that's the conclusion to draw. I'm thinking more of a spectrum that ranges from the actually harmless via clear cut yet legal abuse to the completely illegal. "Trolling" may encompass all of that, and I guess individual definitions vary from person to person (and consequently, from dictionary to dictionary).

 

This actually reminded me of a book I read a while back called On Bullshit.  It's a good read (very quick) and the author basically comes to the conclusion that while both bullshit and lies are deception the difference is that lies are malicious, whereas bullshit isn't meant to harm.  I think when it comes to something like trolling this distinction doesn't really exist, and as such anything negative regardless of intent is seen as trolling.

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I can't see that picture, but I have a pretty clear idea of what it's about. :D

 

(If I'm correct – this Eric Kain guy... haven't we thought of him as a gamergate supporter a year back...?)

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MRAs said they were going to boycott Star Wars and "cost it millions." Forbes put out an article directly saying that MRAs had no such success, but Return of Kings apparently takes that as yes they did? Somehow? Do they know how to read?

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Wait, why are they boycotting Star Wars exactly? I'm sure the answer is as stupid as I am expecting but I would love to actually hear what offense this movie committed to men that earned it a "boycott".

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Wait, why are they boycotting Star Wars exactly? I'm sure the answer is as stupid as I am expecting but I would love to actually hear what offense this movie committed to men that earned it a "boycott".

Female protagonist and person of color! end of the world SJW stuff man.

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It's that little white cuck ball, I'm sure.

*snickers*

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Female protagonist and person of color! end of the world SJW stuff man.

 

I just don't even get what this MRA nonsense is supposed to even be about. From their actions, it seems that their mission is to make sure that everything in the world eventually just ends up as a white penis.

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MRAs claim to be about protecting men's rights. Not actually a terrible goal in and of itself. I mean, a bit misguided, but not terrible.

 

What they usually mean by that is protecting men from the growing threat of women imposing on their will, although they pretend not to believe this.

 

What they don't talk about formally but still practice a lot is also protecting men from the threats of homosexuality and the likes of cuckolding and whatnot (aka black men, 'cause that's all they do, right??). Also beta males. Hoo boy those betas.

 

And what it usually amounts to is being angry at SJWs for wanting to make the world a better place for people who aren't straight white men.

 

It's a hate group.

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Maybe we need a new name for that group since the title they choose themselves is an obvious lie that we all keep around by saying it all the time (and I'm sure there are much funnier names we could give these assholes). There's absolutely a lot of cool people out there actually advocating for men, whether by speaking up for the marginalized groups of men MRAs clearly give no shit about, or just doing the work they claim to want to do, but never find any time for in their busy schedules of complaining about things women have done.

 

These aren't the people who provide help for men, these are the people who call up women's shelter with some made-up story to expose how sexist they are by not taking in men (even though 100% of the time the people there tell them of different places that could help them and offer to set them up there).

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I just don't even get what this MRA nonsense is supposed to even be about. From their actions, it seems that their mission is to make sure that everything in the world eventually just ends up as a white penis.

The people on reddit's MRA board love to throw out stats about how men are more likely to go to jail, commit suicide, and be homeless. All of those are serious problems but in reality what they mostly talk about is false accusations of rape (which include when women choose not to prosecute which they see is a sure sign they were lying) and child support.

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Yeah the worst part of MRA idiocy is they are so close to getting it right sometimes. Like there are a lot of things like that that hurt men. The big problem they have is they blame women/feminism instead of you know, the actual culture of the world/patriarchy.

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An example of men being discriminated against, one I keep seeing as an MRA argument, is custody battles. Yet the reason for women getting custody far more frequently (besides, of course, toxic masculinity :P) likely is the courts' traditional stereotypical view of the women as the mother figure. And that's the kind of role feminism rejects as a universal stereotype.

 

Feministfrequency recently published a video for men – about educating yourself and helping feminism. I found it fairly well made, though of course gamergate supporters burst in flames over one of Sarkeesian's editors talking in this one, a person they've taken a particular dislike to.

 

I've been discussing the content of that video in another forum, with particular focus on the part where the presenter talks about how men definitely suffer from the patriarchial structure as well, yet are generally not systemically opressed. Half a dozen people understood that point very well... ....and that one guy suddenly felt all insulted because "not all men" are in a position of power and "not all men" interrupt conversations as a means to establish dominance. :wacko:

 

/edit:

 

The Star Wars issue.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4hMq6rFpk0&feature=youtu.be

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re. abuse, trolling, harassment:

Yes, 2016 is the year we get to the bottom of it even if we have to open and eat ALL the cans of worms.

 

9c07c2463552813b83e506affe0b840a_youtwit

 

 

I'll be one of the first buyers of Zoë's book (which will of course only arrive over here weeks and weeks later), yet I'm a bit sad that all that, the entire debate over it, will at first be limited to those few people reading the publication. Then again, we could make a nice book club in here. :P

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regarding trolling: another thing is that what is supposed to be "trolling" and what is supposed to be legitimate criticism changes constantly depending on whether or not the person gets called out on being wrong. If someone says something wrong and gets called out on it then the person can claim "I knew that. I was just trolling" which is quite similar to what people would do when I was a kid and say "I knew that. I was just testing you to see if you did." However, back when I was a kid and someone said "I was just testing you" it was usually not believed. Now it seems as if being right is one thing but even if you aren't you can use "I was just trolling" as a way to claim victory because you got a reaction out of someone.

 

regarding that Kimmel clip: It is interesting to me that the clip seems to be using what I would have thought as stereotypical dudebro language which is not really what I think of when I think of MRA extremism. While there is certainly some overlap I don't really think of them in unision.

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It's official; Milo's verification on Twitter is gone. His reaction? Losing his shit, as usual. Not in the angry sort of way, but in the crazy "I don't know what words and things mean" way. He's calling it a violation of his freedom of speech, that stopping harassment is a violation of freedom of speech, and he's calling for his followers to join him on YouTube instead.

 

Gosh. Maybe this will be a long term win when YouTube finally decides to step up its game on this kind of shit.

 

Edit - OH, by the way, would anyone happen to know if Twitter verification can lead to bonus pay / incentives for people working in particular fields? Just wondering out loud. Tooooootally not related.

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I don't know if it really would but it increases your filtering tools and your trustworthiness as a "real person" especially if you are working in the journalism fields. 

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A friend of mine who is a journalist (won't say which publication) told me that while there's no financial incentive, his employer has encouraged him to get verified on Twitter. And exactly for what Apple Cider said; verification has a "trustworthiness" to it that people (not Twitter necessarily) apply to that label.

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re. abuse, trolling, harassment:

Yes, 2016 is the year we get to the bottom of it even if we have to open and eat ALL the cans of worms.

 

9c07c2463552813b83e506affe0b840a_youtwit

 

I don't get what any of this post or tweet means.

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It's maybe not very clear in isolation, but Zoe made a couple of tweets there to point out that because there are enough people hate-watching anything she does, video suggestions afterwards tend to be filled with the kind of garbage GG truther nonsense that these people also watch. It was a reminder to think about the larger implications of the kind of algorithms you build your platform on, because in this case for instance it has managed to figure out that there is a connection between point A and point B, but it doesn't know that that connection is actually an MS paint red line of "What does it all mean?" conspiracy garbage, and so it ends up playing into that.

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