"Ethics and Journalistic Integrity"

[Vainamoinen]

The "rape" part is too easy a mark, so I won't focus on it. Bain's fanbase is mobilized and is attacking trans people on twitter, and of course the original finders of the tombstone especially. The wonderful Katherine Cross is attacked. 8chan is in action. Deep shit.

 

(1) I find it considerably odd that Bain doesn't recognize the "joke" as fan/backer created content, because this information is part of the original tweet that brought the thing to his and Obsidian's attention. A 12 minute rant based on mere seconds of failed reading comprehension. And he really dwells on this incorrect bit, again and again. "We should support the artist when it comes to making jokes like this". "You are telling an artist to censor himself". "This is attempting to bully an artist into taking something out of a game". "I respect that artist's right to shape that world first and foremost". "[the joke] really does add to the universe". This is so utterly embarrassing for Bain! I really wonder why he still keeps this thing online. The transphobia here is debatable, it really is. But the stubborn stupidity?
 
(2) First up, we have one of gamergate's pillar arguments, the "historically accurate" fallacy. No, "these kinds of jokes" are in no way historical. No, we wouldn't have found them on a tombstone in the Middle Ages. No, "Pillars of Eternity" is not set in the Middle Ages. Yes, there was plenty of transphobia back then, and yes, you can absolutely show that in a game, but perspective matters. And context matters. A random "joke" that will absolutely not be perceived as part of the game's lore (by most players who know about the Kickstarter campaign) can not have the necessary context. It stands on its own. This is decidedly non sequitur humor. Historical accuracy has nothing whatsoever to do with it.
 
(3) Argumentative pillar number two is the 'bad characters have to exist in stories and exhibit bad traits' argument, as uttered by Ragnar Tørnquist when his character Mira from Dreamfall Chapters was attacked (wikia entry mostly written by yours truly). Bain seems to remember that well, and is able to recall the name of the game, but obviously knows nothing about Dreamfall Chapters, Chapters' makers and storytelling in general; and he knows nothing, nothing about the character in question. For the character of Mira, it's all about context, because Mira is not a bad person, regardless of her unbearable treatment of the autistic business partner and friend she found on the streets of Bombay as a kid, raising him herself. Yet, no, Mira is not reinforcing any stereotype. She's shocking us out of our wits, because we want, we really want to like her, and can't because of the gross abuse she hurls around. Mira is gloriously written, she is a deeply offensive character, and STILL we've only had about two or three people over on the RTG forums who made a fuzz. The mostly very positive reaction to Mira shows what a godawfully stupid idea the Social Justice Warrior conspiracy narrative is, because, I assure you, if the Social Justice Warrior exists, the RTG forum is full to the brim of them. In using Mira as an example, Bain voids his argument.
 
(4) The argument that the "man who killed himself" for sleeping with a trans person can be interpreted as the butt of the joke (4:15) has a certain "wow" potential. Well, Bain, if that is your interpretation, how exactly can that joke show the gritty grittyness of the gritful transphobic oh so Middle Age world to you? Oh no, sorry, that is not your interpretation. Neither is it anyone's. Deep sexual shaming remains with both "characters" of the "joke".

 

(5) And, finally, here's the "it's just fiction" and "I distinguish fantasy from reality" argument. Stories don't really matter, phew, we can all go home now and drink a few beers. It is here where we take a deep breath and then do our darndest not to follow John Bain back deep down to version 0.1 of this whole reinforcing gender stereotype discussion. I honestly don't know where Bain was going with this anyway; we all distinguish fiction from reality, but the topic never was that someone would interpret this "joke" as a real life case.
 
(6) As a sidenote, there's a vicious little misinformative rabbit pulled from Biscuit's top hat when he speaks about the Batgirl comic cover at 2:55 ("after a series of death threats and a campaign by those who were offended by this Ultimate cover..."). Nope, sorry Bain. You've got it wrong once again. Said Batgirl writer Cameron Stewart on twitter:
 

Something to clarify, because DCs statement was a little unclear. @rafaalbuquerque did not get threats. People OBJECTING to the cover did.

 

See... comics have their gaters too.

[Deadpan]

I understand that, but someone else directly put forth the question in their post.

 

Oh yeah, more responding to the general vibe of the thread since I last looked at it.

[itsamoose]

This piece seems like a pretty accurate portrayal of many of the complaints I've heard regarding TotalBiscuit.  The author points out, rightfully I think, that these problems aren't necessarily only related to him but are more related to the culture of games media on places like youtube.

[Gaizokubanou]

I don't really understand the value in differentiating "TB is a trans-insensitive person on the inside that performs transphobic public acts" and "TB is transphobic".

 

According to Christopher's linked video (good video, thanks Christopher), it's to prevent other side of conversation from derailing and fucking up in ways I did myself earlier.  By focusing on his character, I gave him tremendous amount of leeway when it comes to his soundcloud stuff about PoE and transphobia stuff (oddly on stuff I haven't even checked out myself!  what a tool thing I did, I should have checked out the soundcloud before saying much on the topic), and ultimately I ended up trying to somehow pass his behavior under much lighter scrutiny cause of his 'character'.  I should have just focused on his specific action and stayed on point.

[Deadpan]

I don't think anybody's upset with you though, so that seems fine.

 

More on point, while that's valuable advice it's definitely more rooted in pragmatism than idealism. Ideally, folk should be able to examine their own failings without walling off to critique or lashing out at perceived attackers, but since these things are rather common, trying to frame what they did as a momentary lapse of judgement rather than a character flaw makes it more likely for them to stay open to critique. That doesn't make it a moral obligation though. It's not necessarily the right thing to do, just a helpful thing to try.

[Gormongous]

More on point, while that's valuable advice it's definitely more rooted in pragmatism than idealism. Ideally, folk should be able to examine their own failings without walling off to critique or lashing out at perceived attackers, but since these things are rather common, trying to frame what they did as a momentary lapse of judgement rather than a character flaw makes it more likely for them to stay open to critique. That doesn't make it a moral obligation though. It's not necessarily the right thing to do, just a helpful thing to try.

 

Yeah, it's definitely a strategy more for people with sufficiently fragile egos that any criticism is perceived as an attack, like itsamoose's link points out about TB, so you have to frame it as if it's a mistake that they surely didn't mean. Hopefully, over time and with several "mistakes" like that being caught, they eventually begin to avoid the behavior on their own, with understanding of why maybe following, but maybe not, too.

[Denial]

I think it's OK to say "Totalbiscuit does not verify the basic facts of whatever he is told to get upset about by Gamergate, and then goes off on poorly-informed diatribes that direct further waves of abuse against already marginalised and attacked groups of people". In the course of that he might veer into transphobia or some other -ism or -phobia, because he doesn't really understand the issues and appears not to want to improve that understanding.

 

To be honest, this seems to be working for him, and it feels like a waste of time trying to get him to conform to an idea of what he should be that is clearly not something he is interested in being. It's like KSI - there will always be people charmed by that schtick. All that people who are not charmed by that schtick can really do is a) exercise their own freedom of speech about that and decline to share platforms or seek promotional opportunities with the person making them.

It would be nice if indies and PC developers stopped seeking Totalbiscuit's approval. On the other hand, I can see the commercial reasons why people are reluctant to do that.

[Gaizokubanou]

Yeah, he's one of few youtube celebrities who carries one of best view to sales conversion ratio at that scale.  There are those who carry larger audience, but very few of them can actually boast that their video will help the sales substantially.  Most extreme samples of this are "I am bread" (covered by larger channels but didn't show much correlation to any sales spike) compared to say, "One Finger Death Punch" (low fidelity smart phone port to 1000+ concurrent players after he does a video on it).

 

Or if many others can match his sales driving power, they haven't openly advertised that fact the way TB does.  Which would be an oddity as I would probably want people to know if I had that sort of market power.

 

And on top of that, most developers' interaction with him is minimal to begin with.  Supply him with review code or not.  And even if he is complete ass, let's be real, many people do business with far worse people a lot.  I would do business with people who are very up front about their discriminatory views against my racial identity if the business is good...  I wouldn't expect that many people to abandon his platform for what he has said thus far.

 

Afterall, best revenge is living well.

[Fingus]

Man, there is a lot of stuff going on in that. All of it weird as hell.

[Twig]

christ that dude is broken

[Gaizokubanou]

lol wtf

 

I'm surprised he managed to get in the notion of class struggle in there.  Too bad that it's buried within that... other stuff...

[syntheticgerbil]

Haha, okay, I could totally get if it were something from like 2006-2007 and some sad dude wondering why she changed, but that is from late 2011 and I think he's just reading more into "past Leigh" than he wants.

[BusbyBerkeley]

Haha, okay, I could totally get if it were something from like 2006-2007 and some sad dude wondering why she changed, but that is from late 2011 and I think he's just reading more into "past Leigh" than he wants.

 

Even still, online writers aren't your buddies. That is a really, deeply depressing post. Holy fuck.

[Akidu]

That makes me so uncomfortable in such a depressing way :/ Theres like something terrible going on in each and every line. 

[Vainamoinen]

Remember guys, if women who play games wouldn't date you, there's really no reason that they continue to play games.

[BadHat]

It's almost like Maddy was talking about this person, specifically, when she wrote this - http://metroidpolitan.com/blog/2015/3/3/the-cool-gamer-girlfriend-aka-unicorns-arent-real

[Synnah]

If anyone hasn't read Duncan Fyfe's post about GamerGate for the Campo Santo Quarterly Review, it's a very good read.

[Vainamoinen]

Hey, wow, did anyone post this in here before? It's pretty self referential to post here, but, heck.

http://www.camposanto.com/quarterlyreview/volume-2/issue-1/lost-boys/
 

The whole idea that Campo Santo has a GamerGate blacklist, then—that’s imaginary? I asked Ng and Vanaman to explain. “Let’s say [you] want to work here in the future, when, hopefully, we’re looking to add one or two people to the team in the coming years,” Vanaman says. “Let’s say you think the gaming press should do a better job in informing consumers about what’s going on in the industry and what’s in a particular game. Great. Articulate your opinions and be thoughtful. Let’s say you think the harassment, doxxing and hate brought onto others under the umbrella of GG is awful and don’t associate with that part of the hashtag. Let’s say you’re able to articulate that very clearly. The problem is, your stalwart association with a hashtag shows a glaring blind spot in your ability to understand and empathize with other people. It shows you don’t get that labelling your opinions with something so compromised makes you careless at best and an asshole at worst.”

 

Ng, adding to Vanaman’s comments, says: “I wouldn’t want to work with anyone who doesn’t have the empathy, emotional intelligence or common sense to get why that hashtag is hurtful to many people. It doesn’t matter if skill-wise that person is literally the best on earth.”

[Synnah]

Hey, wow, did anyone post this in here before? It's pretty self referential to post here, but, heck.

http://www.camposanto.com/quarterlyreview/volume-2/issue-1/lost-boys/

 

 

Beat you by 4 minutes! 

[Brodie]

Hey, wow, did anyone post this in here before? It's pretty self referential to post here, but, heck.

http://www.camposanto.com/quarterlyreview/volume-2/issue-1/lost-boys/

 

 

this makes me happy and I wish there were statements of equivalent tone from every single company. 

[Deadpan]

"The founder of Occupy is with us now."

 

Fucking hell, just because "let's go back to slavery" Tunney clings on to their Twitter account doesn't mean she single-handedly started a notably decentralized movement.

[softmachine]

Does KiA allow anti-GG posts? Maybe I'm naive but I think if someone wrote a comprehensive piece demystifying "SJWs" aimed at gaters, we would convert some people. I think the key here is writing it with the knowledge that the people who will read it have associated themselves with this toxic thing to the point where it becomes part of their identity, we're only going to convey them information if we do it without hurting their egos. I know it feels shitty to give them the satisfaction of treating them well after everything that happened but every time I read an anti-GG piece I can't help but think: you're right, but you're not going to change anyone's minds.

 

I can imagine that if this whole kerfuffle happened a few years ago I would be at GG's side since I was a dumb, frustrated teenager browsing 4chan, that's probably why I don't really feel angry when I see a GGer posting something completely unreasonable, I just feel kind of sad.

 

PS: English is not my first language so I apologize in advance for any mistakes in this post.

[Vainamoinen]

"The founder of Occupy is with us now."

 

Oh that can be good. Any kind of strongly anti capitalist, anti consumerist ideology in the gamergate mix could bring the movement to its knees. If "let the market decide" is over, so is gamergate.

 

 

PS: English is not my first language so I apologize in advance for any mistakes in this post.

 

Exhibiting excellent written English skills, but apologizing for the state of your language? Why, you must be a fellow German! :)

 

Attacking the enemy concept of the Social Justice Warrior indeed means attacking the movement at its roots. However, these roots are extraordinarily strong. Almost their entire ideology is founded on it, and the few who would love to abandon the term SJW itself still show a faith in hate mobs demanding censorship in art (Bain et al.). Maybe there isn't really a way to "convince" a gater of anything. However, convincing people may not be a prerequisite to ebb gamergate away.

 

Gamergate will change with time. Its members will never think they've ever been wrong, but they still might, with diverse currents streaming into their ideology mix, change to become something different. Gamergate is in extreme ideological disarray, with a whole lot of opportunist forces trying to push through to lead the movement where they wish. That might be a fatal weakness. The hashtag will be abandoned, having been tainted from minute one, while the revolution will eat its children. And every new tide of gaters will have a slightly different stance on the matter. Until eventually, the people who have once united under the slutshaming tag actually do as they preach — welcoming diversity and accepting women as valid participants in the hobby. Should that actually happen, the movement formerly known as gamergate has "won" over "the SJW" in a sense, because sure as hell, they will start seeing less and less of their enemy figure as a matter of perspective.

 

That doesn't necessarily happen, but I think it CAN happen.

[Christopher]

Does KiA allow anti-GG posts?

 

If it wasn't outright banned, it would be down-voted enough that no one would see it except the first dozen people.

[Deadpan]

Pretty much. As a GG platform, KiA is technically against censorship of all forms, it just doesn't perceive being shouted down (or worse) by its braying masses as a form of silencing so much as a part of the discussion process, nay an expression of free speech. So even though they claim to value differing opinions, they'd show their appreciation by mercilessly attacking and downvoting it.

 

I can't really recommend that course of action either way. I know it's tempting to want to sway them, but if words had the power to (easily) do so, it'd had happened a long time ago already. Many people have written many a clever analysis or witty deconstruction in the wake of this, they just happen to be read, or not read, by ignorant people unwilling to consider what you, I, or anyone else not already close to them has to say about all this.

 

For their sake as much as ours, we'd like them to change their ways, and words will be required to achieve that, but at the moment walking into their little conspiracy cesspit will probably only add to their fantasies of persecution and their spaces being invaded.