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JonCole

"Ethics and Journalistic Integrity"

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Common knowledge is wrong. See the linked Cato Institute map of botched SWAT raids.

 

SWAT raids are dangerous and get people killed. SWATting is and should be understood legally as attempted murder. It will not be though, because that would require the government to confront how flawed SWAT raids already are, even before sociopaths on the internet get involved.

 

That link doesn't really tell us exactly what constitutes "innocent death"... like, is it including innocent deaths from justified raid (because it's keeping separate tab for raid against innocents)?

 

Also it shows 40 deaths in 2014 (or is it 40 raids that had deaths?  again too vague) out of what it claims to be about 40,000 raid per year (that estimate is taken from that site as well).

 

40 out of 40,000...

 

I say common knowledge looks right based on that link.  You can't claim attempted murder for 0.1% probability (which doesn't sound right, like number looks way too low but I'm using the numbers your link provided).

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I too must defend common knowledge. Taking from this 2014 article:

 

Since 1995, SWAT teams have botched 292 raids. A botched raid could be a raid where an innocent person is injured or killed, for example, or a raid where police enter the wrong house. Forty innocent people and 20 nonviolent offenders have been killed in raids since 1995. 

 

And 50000 raids were executed in the year 2005 alone (source: same article). Let's call 2005 a bad year, and guess the figure at 25000 per year from 1995 to 2014. That works out to one innocent/nonviolent death per 8000 raids.

 

Now there's an argument to be made that one in 8000 is still too high and SWAT should do better, but that's hardly attempted murder level lethality.

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Has there been a good article exploring the idea that some gamers/geeks are possessive, controlling assholes of their favored mediums in the same way that some people are possessive, controlling assholes of their romantic partners?  Like, Gone Home pissed people off because it was like their girlfriend hanging out with a new friend, gaming was stepping out on them. 

 

Just an idea that popped into my head tonight that seems familiar enough that I should have encountered it somewhere, but a quick search didn't turn anything up. 

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Part of the problem is that over the last decade+, the United States has been militarizing its police forces. Some of it was in response to situations like the Los Angeles bank robbery where two dudes showed up in body armor from head to two, casually walking along and taking shots from the cops repeatedly. That was crazy, and from my position a little extra fire power for the cops is warranted.

 

But then most of it is in response to "oh no brown peop- I mean terrorism!" The mayor of Oakland, CA in particular is a massively huge jackass about militarizing the police. She just brazenly goes, "Yep, it's what I want because citizens suck when they protest." Protest. Not riot. Protest. God I hate her.

 

... Okay sorry for the digression. Anyway, because cops have all this equipment now, there's a thing they face where if the equipment isn't put to use, it sets up a very compelling precedent to have it taken away. So the police have gotten hyper aggressive in utilizing assault gear and teams so that they can have it in paperwork as being necessary.

 

The unfortunate thing is that the mishaps of these all-too-frequent raids don't get as much publicity. Otherwise the federal level government would put on harsh penalties to make cops think twice about when they conduct these things. It's not like in the movies anymore where the cops roll up in regular cars and set up a perimeter. Instead, they stealthily surround your house, then burst down the door and have their fingers on the trigger.

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I drew comparisons between the way men are portrayed in popular romantic dramedies (Breakfast club was used as the main example) and the excuses nerds use for their attitudes towards gaming and gaming culture.

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The unfortunate thing is that the mishaps of these all-too-frequent raids don't get as much publicity. Otherwise the federal level government would put on harsh penalties to make cops think twice about when they conduct these things. It's not like in the movies anymore where the cops roll up in regular cars and set up a perimeter. Instead, they stealthily surround your house, then burst down the door and have their fingers on the trigger.

 

Yeah, and some of the stuff should be huge press, but somehow the idea of SWAT-related deaths being an honest mistake that doesn't happen that often allows local and state governments to paper over it all repeatedly. How about the baby that was killed by a flashbang tossed in its crib a few months ago? That was outrageous, especially because there was virtually no inquest by the police, and yet it got maybe a week of circulation.

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These articles also only seem to be talking about raids that are officially considered to be a failure, and I'm not sure that translates to the actual number of innocents hit. I'm fairly certain that more than a few "justified" killings that take place in the course of these would look more than a little suspect if examined more closely. You know, in a system that finds no cause to indict Darren Wilson.

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Yeah, and some of the stuff should be huge press, but somehow the idea of SWAT-related deaths being an honest mistake that doesn't happen that often allows local and state governments to paper over it all repeatedly. How about the baby that was killed by a flashbang tossed in its crib a few months ago? That was outrageous, especially because there was virtually no inquest by the police, and yet it got maybe a week of circulation.

Did the infant die from its injuries from that? I had read about the news as it was breaking and the baby was taken in to the hospital in critical condition, but I never heard anything as a followup to whether or not s/he lived. That infuriates me more about this shit.

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Did the infant die from its injuries from that? I had read about the news as it was breaking and the baby was taken in to the hospital in critical condition, but I never heard anything as a followup to whether or not s/he lived. That infuriates me more about this shit.

That's my bad. A hole in his chest, lasting brain damage, one million in medical fees, no indictments, but the baby's apparently alive: http://abcnews.go.com/US/family-toddler-injured-swat-grenade-faces-1m-medical/story?id=27671521

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These articles also only seem to be talking about raids that are officially considered to be a failure, and I'm not sure that translates to the actual number of innocents hit. I'm fairly certain that more than a few "justified" killings that take place in the course of these would look more than a little suspect if examined more closely. You know, in a system that finds no cause to indict Darren Wilson.

 

If The Dollop's history of SWAT is any indication, part of the culture of SWAT is that raids that are clusterfucks frequently get called successes.

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I too must defend common knowledge. Taking from this 2014 article:

And 50000 raids were executed in the year 2005 alone (source: same article). Let's call 2005 a bad year, and guess the figure at 25000 per year from 1995 to 2014. That works out to one innocent/nonviolent death per 8000 raids.

Now there's an argument to be made that one in 8000 is still too high and SWAT should do better, but that's hardly attempted murder level lethality.

So you're willing to accept 60 deaths as permissable in the pursuit of...?

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The outrage over the Law & Order episode is far reaching. Interestingly, I have seen gaters actually recognize that gamergate opposing groups and persons hate the episode as well. The yarn they're spinning as a consequence is, not surprisingly, that the video game press (and their feminist/-nazi/SJW/cultural marxist/etc. allies) have brought this media portrayal on themselves through their way of speaking about gamergate.

 

Well, I guess if Sarkeesian had just kept her damn mouth shut and never published all those rape threats she received, it would have been an all-peachy and conflict free SPECIAL VICTIMS UNIT episode... :wacko:

 

This is all fucked beyond belief. It is gamergate who takes under their wings people like the "pickup artist" and self proclaimed "only technically a rapist" Daryush Valizadeh. And unless large batches of gaters finally start saying that they don't WANT this guy's support, I'm counting that guy in and I'm pointing at guys like that until my fingers bleed left and right. If they repost Sommers videos, they wallow in US centric Republican mud; if they pay Davis Aurini's patreon, they're wallowing in misogynist mud, and if they cheer Roosh, they wallow in rapist mud. Congrats, doofuses.

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I too must defend common knowledge. Taking from this 2014 article:

And 50000 raids were executed in the year 2005 alone (source: same article). Let's call 2005 a bad year, and guess the figure at 25000 per year from 1995 to 2014. That works out to one innocent/nonviolent death per 8000 raids.

 

Now there's an argument to be made that one in 8000 is still too high and SWAT should do better, but that's hardly attempted murder level lethality.

 

So you're willing to accept 60 deaths as permissable in the pursuit of...?

 

 

Now there's an argument to be made that one in 8000 is still too high and SWAT should do better, but that's hardly attempted murder level lethality.

 

My point was right there.

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Mangela - to clarify, the point being made was that the likelihood of swatting someone is low enough that the swatter could say in court that they didn't expect or intend any death to occur.

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This is all fucked beyond belief. It is gamergate who takes under their wings people like the "pickup artist" and self proclaimed "only technically a rapist" Daryush Valizadeh. And unless large batches of gaters finally start saying that they don't WANT this guy's support, I'm counting that guy in and I'm pointing at guys like that until my fingers bleed left and right. If they repost Sommers videos, they wallow in US centric Republican mud; if they pay Davis Aurini's patreon, they're wallowing in misogynist mud, and if they cheer Roosh, they wallow in rapist mud. Congrats, doofuses.

 

Isn't this just Gamergate's MO at this point?  They throw accusations around and claim others are falsely accused/over-punished in the hopes that eventually it'll stick or they turn out to be right.  For a group with such a selective memory I don't really know what else I would expect.

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It's certainly questionable whether attempted murder would hold as an actual case to be made against this (This usually isn't applied to comically ineffective methods, but it doesn't have to be particularly promising of success either, as far as I know, especially if the intent is made clear somehow, say in accompanying tweets wishing for somebody's death. Also laws are different in different places) but since I imagine none of us are qualified to speak to that with any expertise, it seems to me more that the argument was about whether such a gleefully reckless thing counts as an attempt to kill in spirit.

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It's certainly questionable whether attempted murder would hold as an actual case to be made against this (This usually isn't applied to comically ineffective methods, but it doesn't have to be particularly promising of success either, as far as I know, especially if the intent is made clear somehow, say in accompanying tweets wishing for somebody's death. Also laws are different in different places) but since I imagine none of us are qualified to speak to that with any expertise, it seems to me more that the argument was about whether such a gleefully reckless thing counts as an attempt to kill in spirit.

 

Right.  Lot depends on the circumstances, as it should.  Like say, SWATing a known airsoft gun collector while he is streaming and showing off their collection is probably close to murder attempt (sorry the hypothetical is bit oddly specific but you know what, considerations for these issues of attempted murder should be specific as possible) as the risk of death just skyrockets.  Evidences pointing to firm belief that SWATing will likely result in death would also push it towards attempted murder (along the line of ineffective method).

 

But SWATing on its own, as of right now with about 0.1% chance of innocent death, shouldn't qualify as attempted murder.  It certainly deserves steep punishment to serve as deterrent and SWAT breaches could use bit more vetting then just going after any random information, but that second part is a different issue.

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So this has been the GG thread, but this might be related to actual ethics in games journalism unrelated to GG and I don't know, it might warrant discussion.

 

John Walker interviewed Peter Molyneux and... I have mildly strong opinions about what happened but I'll let people read it and see what they think.

 


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I couldn't make it past the first few paragraphs. The feeling of spectating on something so brutal is what I imagine it's like to watch an illegal dogfight.

 

I've always heard stories about Molyneux and don't have much time for him, but watching this spread on Twitter today has been ugly.

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It's really long! Also apparently they are having server issues from traffic.

 

(deleted my copy-paste since RPS seems to be working fine and I don't want to hijack page views)

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