Merus Posted August 14, 2014 How do we not have a Ferguson thread yet. So police in Ferguson, a suburb in St Louis, Missouri, basically murdered a black kid. The community didn't take kindly to this, so in response the police invaded. No fly zones, journalists being arrested, the whole nine yards. This feels like it is going to be one of those pivotal points in American history. I know I won't be able to take America seriously when they talk about freedom and democracy and tyranny any more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ucantalas Posted August 14, 2014 Wow. I had no idea this was going on at all. It's horrible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonCole Posted August 14, 2014 The shooting was so covered up that police actually refused to interview several witnesses to the murder, including Daria Johnson who was interviewed by Chris Hayes at MSNBC - http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/police-shooting-draws-massive-protests-317336131948 Yesterday, Ferguson police were firing tear gas into the backyards of people living close to where riots were taking place - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/12/ferguson-police-tear-gas_n_5671811.html A Missouri State Senator who was participating in a nonviolent protest was fired upon with tear gas, she went on to ask the police chief if she was going to get gassed again - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/13/state-senator-ferguson_n_5676766.html Earlier today, Ferguson Police shot a woman in the head with a rubber bullet and then attributed the attack to a local "driveby", despite the fact that they closed all the roads in that area (it was a mile away from the initial shooting). Here's the more or less "official story", despite the fact that there were several witnesses who said it was the police - http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/crime/2014/08/13/ferguson-woman-shot-in-head/13990051/ Wesley Lowery of the Washington Post and Ryan Reilly of the Huffington Post were arrested and detained by Ferguson Police for no apparent reason - http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/08/13/washington-post-reporter-arrested-in-ferguson/ And in all of this, the name of the officer who murdered Michael Brown has still yet to be released and no charges are being brought to him. The streets are covered with officers in SWAT gear, armored cars, tanks, officers perched atop vehicles with high-powered assault rifles, tear gas, etc. Police stats are being released that show that blacks are arrested in Ferguson at a fairly ridiculous rate, practically 1:5. A police officer in Ferguson has leaked over the past few months that the cops would openly discuss how some day would be "black days" and they would "arrest people for being black in the mall", for instance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chummer Posted August 14, 2014 Antonio French has on the ground footage and pictures of what's going down. This feels like it is going to be one of those pivotal points in American history. God, I hope so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerofiftyone Posted August 14, 2014 I've been following this on and off recently. I'm not familiar with how things are in the US so please forgive my ignorance; but one thing I don't understand fully is how and why the police is so militarised. Is what we're seeing in Ferguson an anomaly, or has this stuff been silently ramping up on a national level? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feelthedarkness Posted August 14, 2014 It's almost inevitable when you an gear an already racist police force like an army, they view the citizens like enemy forces. I thought this captured that well, written by a Marine. http://www.businessinsider.com/police-militarization-ferguson-2014-8 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonCole Posted August 14, 2014 I've been following this on and off recently. I'm not familiar with how things are in the US so please forgive my ignorance; but one thing I don't understand fully is how and why the police is so militarised. Is what we're seeing in Ferguson an anomaly, or has this stuff been silently ramping up on a national level? The latter. Police forces acquire military-grade armament from the military as items are decommissioned - for instance, an armored truck that was used in Iraq would have to be stored and maintained by the government, so instead they essentially give them to local PD to save them that cost. Same goes for decommissioned assault rifles, NVGs, ammunition, etc. Edit: here's some pretty good footage of what it's like on the ground there - http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feelthedarkness Posted August 14, 2014 Also, military funding is essentially sacrosanct in american politics, so there is almost always infinite money for it, and it is a huge business. The problem is that you need to use this stuff to justify buying more of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerofiftyone Posted August 14, 2014 The latter. Police forces acquire military-grade armament from the military as items are decommissioned - for instance, an armored truck that was used in Iraq would have to be stored and maintained by the government, so instead they essentially give them to local PD to save them that cost. Same goes for decommissioned assault rifles, NVGs, ammunition, etc. Well that's entirely terrifying. Thanks for the explanation. It's almost inevitable when you an gear an already racist police force like an army, they view the citizens like enemy forces. I thought this captured that well, written by a Marine. http://www.businessinsider.com/police-militarization-ferguson-2014-8 The reports I've read about the way police have been acting throughout all of this has been reminding me of Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Experiment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ucantalas Posted August 14, 2014 Edit: here's some pretty good footage of what it's like on the ground there - http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930 Man... the chat on that website... yuck. Like holy shit. Its worse than the Twitch chat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Merus Posted August 14, 2014 One of the smartass responses I and others have made is how this is basically exactly the scenario that those worried about 'tyranny' have been fearing, and it's funny how they're not out in force. And then someone retweeted this, which I think explains a lot: this is the Confederacy mindset. They're not out in force because this is what they actually want. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonCole Posted August 14, 2014 I was trying to find the exact program that made this militarization possible, equipment-wise. It's called the Section 1033 Protocol: Section 1033 of the National Defense Authorization Act of 1997 authorizes the Department of Defense to transfer excess military property to state and local law enforcement agencies. The eligible agencies in law enforcement activities are government agencies whose primary function is the enforcement of applicable federal, state and local laws, and whose compensated law enforcement officers have powers of arrest and apprehension. Preference is given to counter-drug and counter-terrorism activities. Types of Property: Body armor, night vision equipment, APC's, aircraft, first aid supplies, weapons, surveillance equipment, Kevlar helmets, gas masks and filters, vehicles, etc. What makes it so appealing is that it's basically free, at least compared to most other methods of procuring this type of equipment: Your Cost: There is an administrative fee based on the number of officers in your department. 1033 Annual Support Charges - Sliding Scale No. Officers Annual Fee 1-25 $500.00 26-50 $800.00 51-75 $1000.00 76-100 $1200.00 101-150 $1500.00 151-200 $1800.00 201 - and up $2000.00 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ucantalas Posted August 14, 2014 Are those prices per piece of equipment? Or per officer? Or is it like a subscription model?I hope its closer to the former, because it worries me that for the cost of one month of rent 25 people could be reasonably armed for a year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonCole Posted August 14, 2014 From what I understand, it's just an over the top cost for participating in the program that slides based on the number of officers you have. So your police department pays <$2000 per year and then has access to effectively unlimited armored vehicles, assault rifles, body armor, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badfinger Posted August 14, 2014 I've been following this on and off recently. I'm not familiar with how things are in the US so please forgive my ignorance; but one thing I don't understand fully is how and why the police is so militarised. Is what we're seeing in Ferguson an anomaly, or has this stuff been silently ramping up on a national level? It's essentially the intersection between the War On Drugs in the 90s and as Jon was saying, military gear making its way from 10 years of occupation to local law enforcement. Those things combined with what feels like no oversight on police has essentially made them local militias. Also the fact that even 50 years after the Civil Rights movement it's still barely legal to be a black person in America, and it's boiling over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Merus Posted August 14, 2014 Because you need APCs for counter-drug operations for some reason Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonCole Posted August 14, 2014 I think I'm going to go to bed, even though I feel like I could keep reading about and watching this stuff all night. For those still just finding out about this, Vox is doing a great job of presenting the whole picture and updating as necessary - http://www.vox.com/2014/8/11/5988925/mike-brown-killing-shooting-case-ferguson-police-riots-st-louis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gormongous Posted August 14, 2014 One of the smartass responses I and others have made is how this is basically exactly the scenario that those worried about 'tyranny' have been fearing, and it's funny how they're not out in force. And then someone retweeted this, which I think explains a lot: this is the Confederacy mindset. They're not out in force because this is what they actually want. That's a great article. Great sense of history, great sense of how it is to live in the South even today. I'm in the Midtown neighborhood of St. Louis, ten miles south-southeast of Ferguson, and the effects of the killing and the riots are chilling both in their presence and absence. It's quiet around here and traffic is as normal, but there's barely anyone on the streets, certainly no people of color. The air feels a bit thick, too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badfinger Posted August 14, 2014 To be clear, unchecked police violence is not being bottled up in St. Louis. http://www.theneworleansadvocate.com/home/9987387-123/nopd-shoots-man-during-traffic http://ktla.com/2014/08/12/man-hospitalized-after-being-shot-by-police-in-south-l-a/ http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/staten-island-man-dies-puts-choke-hold-article-1.1871486 And of course, Trayvon Martin was killed after been shot while unarmed and his murderer was acquitted on all charges. Not a police matter, but a gun matter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henroid Posted August 14, 2014 If the police are going to militarize, I would say that misuse of their authority / enforcement privilege should come with way steeper consequences. Which is to say, something more than a couple week's of suspension with pay, which is kind of the norm for police who do shitty things and the public reacts to it. All this, of course, not even close to everything there is to discuss about this. But I'm pretty sure the entire police department there should be disbanded and replaced. It's like we need to set Federal guidelines for screening people who want to be cops. "Are you a racist fuck? Are you trigger happy?" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gormongous Posted August 14, 2014 "Are you a racist fuck? Are you trigger happy?" "Do you crave authority but fear accountability? Do you want to force your social and political views on everyone else with the threat (or use) of violence?" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henroid Posted August 14, 2014 I'm seeing some things via my Twitter feed about Facebook apparently deleting content regarding Ferguson, even if just text. But I dunno how true it is or isn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ucantalas Posted August 14, 2014 "Do you crave authority but fear accountability? Do you want to force your social and political views on everyone else with the threat (or use) of violence?" "...then join the Police Force! We don't care." (Sorry, it's just that halfway through it started sounding like one of those late-night TV ads for, like... ITT Tech or DeVry or something.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeremywc Posted August 14, 2014 I'm seeing some things via my Twitter feed about Facebook apparently deleting content regarding Ferguson, even if just text. But I dunno how true it is or isn't. I was just noticing that my Twitter feed is blowing up with conversation about Ferguson, while my Facebook feed is completely devoid of it. But I'm chalking it up to the fact that the people I follow on Facebook are mostly local friends and family. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites