Jake

Idle Thumbs 170: Esophagus Sarcophagus

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I remember walking out of the movie theater thinking Prometheus was not really what I wanted from another Alien(s) film, but as its own movie was interesting if crazy and disjointed. Like 2 stars?

 

Then the entire internet told me I actually hated it, so I don't really remember what any of those thoughts and feelings were anymore.

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Prometheus :(
I can suspend disbelief for all the sci-fi fantasy shit, but I could not accept those people as real human beings, let alone as the best and brightest scientists. Each and every one of them were stunningly idiotic.
It's like the writers had specific plot points they had to hit to make the story move forward to the desired ending, or to get some specific Cool Scene, and the characters just had to do whatever would lead them there, even if it made no sense at all for that ostensible person.

Anyway, this episode has made me want to watch all 4 of those movies. I'm not sure if I ever watched the second one before, I think I might just feel like I have because I've played a lot of video games.

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All right, sweethearts, what are you waiting for? Breakfast in bed? Another glorious day in the Corps! A day in the Marine Corps is like a day on the farm. Every meal's a banquet! Every paycheck a fortune! Every formation a parade! I LOVE the Corps! You know if you've seen aliens. Hudson come here, COME HERE

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Even though it's pretty much the second-best of those movies, there's a couple of things about Aliens that really irk me. Namely James Cameron's response to HR Giger, who considered the Xenomorph and his designwork on Alien to be his "baby."

 

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The little "by the way, Poltergeist 2 sucked" at the end there is just the icing on the "fuck you" cake.

 

 

 

Also, I always feel weird about actors being cast as a different race, and Vasquez is exactly that.

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Speaking of Cameron being a dick, I think listening to the commentary on the Aliens disc made me hate the guy more than ever. The way he talks about everything is so arrogant and self involved, like every idea he has is brilliant or completely unique. He also has no problem tearing others down on record, mostly his staff. There's a whole featurette on how Cameron and his then wife were just rushing and laying on the pressure for James Horner to record a soundtrack faster than he ever had because they fucked up something with deciding on a schedule or something. The featurette goes from Horner explaining how tough it is and all the stuff he had to do to get it done while it goes back to Cameron and his Wife smugly standing there pretty much saying they get what they want and the soundtrack was good, so we made a great decision. I might be a bit off on my memory there, but I think that's where I had the most negative reaction and I just wanted their eyeballs to melt.

 

There's also a pretty lame dig at David Fincher at the end of the Aliens commentary where Cameron says he ruined the franchise for all of the fans by killing off beloved characters Newt and Generic Marine 8. Considering those characters only exist in the Aliens movie and he wanted to have it have his own "spin," as the letter you posted so shows, Teg, I don't think you can consider the whole franchise beholden to a tonally different sequel. Plus I doubt Fincher even had a say in the script considering he hardly had a say in a lot of what he shot or cut.

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I cannot imagine using that hashtag for anything other than mocking Pringles.

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Come on Pringles, I know you can create a better ad campaign than this. Once you pop! YOU KNOW?

 

Bird is the word!

 

I just remember the claim that there was no grease confused the hell out of me. You can still grease the hell out of the place with a good set of Pringles.

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http://grantland.com/features/prometheus-ridley-scott-blockbuster-alien-franchise/

For all its faults, I can't hate Prometheus. I actually kind of enjoy it. The first 45 minutes especially, when it's all tense setup and beautifully shot scenes.

 

I'm in exactly the same boat here. I think it's a stupid, beautiful movie. Some of it really works for me, some of it doesn't. Mainly, I'm charmed by the fact that a massive-budget action/horror/sci-fi film from 2012 had the balls to ask soul-searching 60s sci-fi questions like "why are we here?" "what is humanity's purpose in the universe," and so on. 

 

Nor am I too proud to admit that I have a giant crush on Noomi Rapace AND Charlize Theron, as well as Michael Fassbender, if I'm being honest. If the entire film revolved around them, there'd be no problems.

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Nah, just make the film entirely about Guy Pearce in weird, old-man make up. That'll do the trick!

 

¬ ¬

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I'm in exactly the same boat here. I think it's a stupid, beautiful movie. Some of it really works for me, some of it doesn't. Mainly, I'm charmed by the fact that a massive-budget action/horror/sci-fi film from 2012 had the balls to ask soul-searching 60s sci-fi questions like "why are we here?" "what is humanity's purpose in the universe," and so on. 

 

Nor am I too proud to admit that I have a giant crush on Noomi Rapace AND Charlize Theron, as well as Michael Fassbender, if I'm being honest. If the entire film revolved around them, there'd be no problems.

 Yeah! It's also worth pointing out that this blockbuster movie has two competent female characters who are allowed to contribute to the plot in interesting ways. Most movies of this type barely give you one woman. Also, Idris Elba. 

 

Nah, just make the film entirely about Guy Pearce in weird, old-man make up. That'll do the trick!

 

¬ ¬

Oh wow, I completely forgot he was in this movie.

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There's also a pretty lame dig at David Fincher at the end of the Aliens commentary where Cameron says he ruined the franchise for all of the fans by killing off beloved characters Newt and Generic Marine 8. Considering those characters only exist in the Aliens movie and he wanted to have it have his own "spin," as the letter you posted so shows, Teg, I don't think you can consider the whole franchise beholden to a tonally different sequel. Plus I doubt Fincher even had a say in the script considering he hardly had a say in a lot of what he shot or cut.

I was always under the impression that a large contributing factor to Newt being killed off was that the actor would have been way too old by the time they shot Alien 3. Sure, they could have recast, but that would have been a bit rubbish. And if Hicks had lived it would have totally undermined the dynamic of Ripley being suddenly stranded among a colony of deliberately isolated dangerous men. Again, they could have told a different story (of which there had been several proposals, of course), but I think that one works well with the Alien mythos, amorphous though it may be. Also, Hicks is a dumb action film character from a dumb action film.

Going out on a dangerous limb: flawed though the later sequels may be, I feel like Aliens is the film most disconnected from what's actually interesting about the series. (The AvP films don't count, and shouldn't even figure into discussion unless specifically addressed.) Sure, it's a good action film, but I don't really see how it benefits from being in the Alien universe (other than the cool creature design, which the above letter suggests Cameron appropriated somewhat callously, though I suspect that's not too uncommon in Hollywood), and I'm not sure how the Alien universe benefits from it, either. I don't like the idea that all people need is a few guns to suddenly be able to take down tens of these supposed "ultimate weapons" apiece. If you take humankind to be the product of both its biology and its technology, the alien threat, whilst still significant, seems markedly reduced. Bringing out Ripley's maternal side with Newt did fit in with the themes pretty well, although in a rather straightforward and on-the-nose manner. The revelation that Ripley survived her own daughter does make that more interesting. Was that only in the special edition?

Alien 3 was a deeply flawed film, but at its core it has something interesting, and something that I think fits well into the Alien universe, and it seems like every time they release it they manage to put together a slightly better version (although none of them a director's cut, because Fincher wants nothing to do with it any more). For example, in the Anthology (Blu-ray) release they tidied up a lot of the previously under-produced material they'd added in the Quadrilogy (DVD) release, making it much less jarring and distracting. I do think the stuff they added helps a lot, though. I found the latter portion of the theatrical release kind of confusing.

That's my probably very blinkered and biased view on things. I'm going to have to re-watch all the films just to determine whether any of what I just wrote is at all justified.


I thought Prometheus was OK, if a bit muddled on the character level. That's often my reaction to things inspiring mass disappointment, though: by the time I actually see them myself, I've adjusted my expectations enough that I find some way to enjoy them. Probably over-cautious spoiler tag:

I enjoyed and didn't expect the theme of creators' indifference to their creations, which I thought was embodied quite well in David.

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Going out on a dangerous limb: flawed though the later sequels may be, I feel like Aliens is the film most disconnected from what's actually interesting about the series. (The AvP films don't count, and shouldn't even figure into discussion unless specifically addressed.) Sure, it's a good action film, but I don't really see how it benefits from being in the Alien universe (other than the cool creature design, which the above letter suggests Cameron appropriated somewhat callously, though I suspect that's not too uncommon in Hollywood), and I'm not sure how the Alien universe benefits from it, either. I don't like the idea that all people need is a few guns to suddenly be able to take down tens of these supposed "ultimate weapons" apiece. If you take humankind to be the product of both its biology and its technology, the alien threat, whilst still significant, seems markedly reduced.

I like how you put that and i'm not sure if I have ever actually thought about that before, but I think on some level that has always bothered me about Aliens. If Weyland Yutani is trying to co-opt a new species as some sort of ultimate weapon/warrior, they sure seem really easy to take down with whatever weapons the rag tag team can put together. In the first Alien they were dying left and right trying just to find the thing and it never appeared in front of you before it was too late, but in Aliens the only element of surprise seems to be a face hugger hiding around. Otherwise they just charge at the marines and guts spray left and right. The Xenomorphs seemed so much more intelligent in the first movie and less like just... a bug. It makes sense within the lore if it is taking some element of human DNA then it should be taking some of a human's ability to think and create strategy.

 

Alien 3 was a deeply flawed film, but at its core it has something interesting, and something that I think fits well into the Alien universe, and it seems like every time they release it they manage to put together a slightly better version (although none of them a director's cut, because Fincher wants nothing to do with it any more). For example, in the Anthology (Blu-ray) release they tidied up a lot of the previously under-produced material they'd added in the Quadrilogy (DVD) release, making it much less jarring and distracting. I do think the stuff they added helps a lot, though. I found the latter portion of the theatrical release kind of confusing.

 

I have the Blu-ray set but I still haven't watched it. Did they fix the green screen mess with the alien near the end? I feel like just color correcting all of those scenes would go such a long way.

 

I pretty much have reserved all of my judgement on Prometheus because I thought there was supposed to a be a direct sequel in the works that is basically the second half of the movie as they do these days. Did this not happen and that movie is all we get? I don't know if on its own that it makes a whole lot of fucking sense or is really that interesting. Certainly feels half finished to me.

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i'vent much to add to the Aliens talk...i think i've only seen each 1-2x each.  AvP Gold video game (circa 2000) by Rebellion though - now that was a great time

 

 

On the topic though of Doom on SNES - found this gem at my brothers this weekend 

post-33948-0-74372600-1407769768_thumb.jpg

Super smooth

 

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Yesss that bright red cart. Doom aesthetic: actually fucking weird when divorced from how childhood brains and 90s news media perceived it.

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I have the Blu-ray set but I still haven't watched it. Did they fix the green screen mess with the alien near the end? I feel like just color correcting all of those scenes would go such a long way.

It's been a while since I watched it, but here's how I remember it: The CG still looks pretty terrible (the bits with the aliens crawling on the ceilings and all that), but the image and sound quality on the stuff they added to the final scene is way better. I think they did some colour correction and noise reduction and all that kind of jazz about which I don't know very much. As in it's not total shit any more. On the DVD it seemed like some sort of straight-from-the-camera crap you'd see in a pre-release behind the scenes documentary; in the Blu-ray version it actually fits in with the material surrounding it.

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I'll just quote my response from the last time I was flummoxed by how many people here dislike Aliens (in the Colonial Marines thread):

 

Man, I can't believe so many people dislike Aliens. It's a great sequel - expanding on the universe, tying up loose ends, not just redoing what the first film did - full of great performances, dialogue, action, effects, tension, atmosphere and heart. I think it still looks great, due to the pre-CG effects, and the aliens' movements are totally convincing to me - Cameron uses a load of tricks to avoid them looking like men in suits, arguably moreso than the first film.

I thought everyone felt this way, now I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

 

I love Alien, I love Aliens, they're both fantastic films.

 

Oh, and that Cameron letter reads as pretty respectful, to me.

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I'll just quote my response from the last time I was flummoxed by how many people here dislike Aliens (in the Colonial Marines thread):

 

 

 

I love Alien, I love Aliens, they're both fantastic films.

 

Oh, and that Cameron letter reads as pretty respectful, to me.

 

I'm in agreement with this. Alien very easily could have continued down the path of all the other horror classics from the late 70s through early 80s, with rinse/repeat sequels.  And for what is an action movie, Aliens is still exploring territory that we wouldn't see other actions movies touch for years, if ever (motherhood, PTSD, gender integrated military forces, genocide).   It's a great movie, it's just not Alien. 

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If anyone wasn't familiar with 'greebling', a friend of mine recently did a short interview on NPR about it and 'grok' as part of series they've been doing on industry-specific lingo.

 

http://www.npr.org/2014/07/08/329884096/grokking-and-greebling-in-the-strange-land-of-gamer-lingo

 

Ha, when I saw the title, I was like "gamer lingo", wtf?  I've known people using the word grok for years and years.  In the comments, your friend says that after giving the interview, he suddenly learned that it was common to certain groups, he just hadn't encountered it himself outside of the game industry, and so thought it was mostly a developer term. 

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