Chris

Idle Thumbs 168: I Like the Hair

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Redemption arcs too often distill actions and reactions to this 1:1 relationship that I don't find particularly engaging. The fact that it's usually a man seeking redemption for some action they committed against a woman (usually a wife or a daughter), makes this story trope less and less interesting to me. Looking for redemption is such a selfish pursuit and I wish more narratives were willing to cop to that complicated motivation, instead of indiscriminately rewarding the protagonist (example: the ending of Breaking Bad).

 

Lee's story never read as him needing to seek redemption, which ultimately made his relationship with Clementine feel more poignant and heartbreaking.

 

Yeah, I guess there should be made a distinction between a character motivated by redemption and a story driven by that motivation. I deeply dislike comedies about awful people who get humanized and redeemed in the end, so there must be a difference between the two.

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I'm a few pages late it seems but the idea that Valve shouldn't make changes to Dota 2 are misguided.  There haven't been enormous changes in the Big 4 American sports lately but basketball was around for a long time before the 3-point line was implemented and American football didn't make the forward pass legal until the early 1900's.  

 

Who knows how long Lords Management games will be around but even if their lifetime is considerably shorter than a traditional sport LoMas should and need to tweak to improve the product.  As time goes on leagues constantly make minor changes and Valve should do the same.  Hopefully this doesn't derail any Walking Dead talk.

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I don't think anyone said Valve shouldn't make changes to Dota 2. There was only friction against changes made specifically to increase its value as a spectator sport.

 

I mean there was a huge balance change only a short while before TI4, and there will probably be another in a couple months, if not sooner.

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Plus buffing & nerfing various heroes kind of acts as a proxy to the way athletes get better/worse over time. Of course, the actual performance of the players changes over time as well so you have two different levels in how the game evolves.

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I think most sports are too inflexible about rules and adapting (one of the reasons I like F1 so much is how willing they are to change the rules and use the best tech they can in all aspects of the sport), and I support what dota is doing, with iteratively changing rules for balance and fun. I mean, competitive games have been doing that for a while, but there is nothing wrong with it, and sports like Soccer should maybe try it out -- use cameras to support ref decisions, for instance.

 

Also Sean's description of some of the more esoteric stuff (Or maybe it was Brad's on the bombcast, they both talked about the international a bunch on both podcasts) in dota, like memorizing which tree to eat so you can execute a move through it, is rather off-putting. Dota seems, from the outside, like it is incredibly far up its own ass, which I think is why I am averse to playing it.

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Memorizing that level of detail to the game though is unusual, and not the sole mark of success. Granted it sure as hell can help.

 

One argument I read in an article about the International, an argument I disagree with, is that the game centers around so few lords and nothing is really done to fix that. This was my first year watching any pro-DotA, but back in May Skywrath Mage made no appearances (maybe one or two). Then when the playoffs were going on to wind down to the top 8 teams for the main event, he was in every match just about (or maybe actually every match). And why? Because someone figured out he rocks with the right combination / support. And thus the character is adapted.

 

Every lord in the game is capable of having this treatment. Sure, we may not see a Spirit Breaker in pro-DotA much at all, but one day someone is going to do something right with him, and he'll break out. That's what excites me about continuing to watch (and play) the game - things are only as definite as the players decide.

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Also Sean's description of some of the more esoteric stuff (Or maybe it was Brad's on the bombcast, they both talked about the international a bunch on both podcasts) in dota, like memorizing which tree to eat so you can execute a move through it, is rather off-putting. Dota seems, from the outside, like it is incredibly far up its own ass, which I think is why I am averse to playing it.

On the other hand, though, that's the kind of stuff that makes the game great, instead of good.

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That's interesting.  For me, the story was more about a man who believed he needed redemption but actually never did. I think the whole concept of "redemption" is nonsense and someone in pursuit of it, because they're so upset with themselves, so ashamed, is the thing that is really sad to me.

 

motherfucking video games

Yeah that's exactly what I wanted to clarify, and it's really cool that was your intent just because it's so different that the usual. I think your explanation of the back story in Tone Control really helps me understand your intent and where it was coming from personally so the crime of passion ultimately ends up not being the biggest deal, especially since the world turns pretty savage shortly after.

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The one tree to eat to avoid something isn't really important, if you're watching it done it'll be "BIG PLAYS HUGE JUKE". If it's done to you in game you might not even know what they did. If you manage to do it you'll feel pretty good.

 

There were 10 unpicked and unbanned heroes out of 102 available heroes in captains mode (5 aren't included right now). KOTL and PL weren't touched at all because noone dared with how most games played out. They're both still strong for the same reasons they've always been. It's strange that noone tried KOTL for defending towers but with so many blink daggers he can't live long. Spirit breaker is just a bad hero in comparison to every other hero, this hasn't changed in years. He does one thing and only one thing, and he can't do it when playing from behind. A year or more ago some team tried playing him as a support.

 

There was something wrong with the finals but it wasn't in the way Newbee played. VG should have tried some other strat after the same one failed twice in a row or right in game 3. Newbee knew how to stop it.

 

I don't think it's a problem with the game right now that caused the final, games before the final were pretty good. The actual problem might be in the way the format at TI4 was set up. No BO1 in the lower bracket was good but only BO3 to the finals was kinda shit.

 

The 16 man group stage with BO1 produced way too many games to actually watch, live or afterwards. It was just a spew of dota, especially on the multicast channel. I tried following but most of the time just refreshed TeamLiquid's wiki to view results. The lowest 4 teams just getting eliminated made the first games played tense but then the rest just mellowed out till the last 2 or 3 series on the final day of the group stage, where you could see how wins would affect ranking.

 

The format wasn't easy to read nor did it produce a good finals like TI2 and TI3. It threw out half the teams from even appearing at the live event, unlike TI2 and TI3, where everyone got at least a shot on the stage. The group stage might as well have been played online, like the regional qualifiers, it made no difference. Anyone who wasn't a fan of the top 8 didn't even see their favorite team play at the event!

 

At TI2 it was Navi vs IG, IG won 3:1 but it had tense games. IG was the clear favorite to win and it was 7 chinese teams and Navi in the top 8. TI3 finals were honestly a stroke of luck for the spectators, if either team didn't each throw a game with a bad line up that was very risky to try to win with it wouldn't have even gone to game 5.

 

This year the finals had 4 games during which there were 12 different heroes picked. It had a team try the same strategy three times in a row and lose every one. The tournament structure shouldn't have let a one trick pony team get into the finals.

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If it helps your storyboard, or the final animation....

Sorry for not responding. If I continue that, I don't feel it's a good project for collaboration, but I hope we'll see more idle illustrations from you.

Some outsider Dota & eSports thoughts: After watching a few full matches I started to think how crazy it was that the biggest genre in eSports is in many ways like a traditional RPG - gold, goblins, grinding, item shops and minibosses, countless characters and their abilities... For some reason I seem to naturally think that complexity from simplicity is the holy grail of game design - but here's an interesting and popular game with layers and layers of (for an outsider at least) cryptic feeling rules and information.

But then I thought, of course, this is what big part of electronic competitive play is destined to be: Creative use and control of vast information pools, something that is truly impossible or at least very cumbersome in the physical world. There may never be a thriving cyber football league and traditional FPS's are probably not going to be the most popular eSports genre, because when the focus is on moving and aiming it is always more interesting when there's a physical performance attached to them.

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Quake movement is always a joy to spectate. I only played Quake live, did UT when Q3 was out but the UT movement/physics system is shit in comparison.

 

Trying to follow the 1v1 duels is hard if you don't play the game yourself, I know they want map control over items and weapons but that's about it. Flying effortlessly through the stage is fun to watch.

 

DOTA is more a mini MMORPG than an RPG. You're trying to farm, some asshole is around, trying to kill you.

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Quake movement is always a joy to spectate. I only played Quake live, did UT when Q3 was out but the UT movement/physics system is shit in comparison.

 

I apologize, I try to not get too upset over things on this forum. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and open discussion is critical.

 

 

 

That's fucking blasphemy. You're full of shit.

 

 

:)

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I apologize, I try to not get too upset over things on this forum. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and open discussion is critical.

 

 

 

That's fucking blasphemy. You're full of shit.

 

 

:)

 

UT's dodge spamming is so boring in comparison to Quake 3/Quake Live. You can't even rocket jump, you can't move at insane speeds and you can't catch up to anyone you're chasing.

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Really fucking bummed that I didn't hear "double dribble" after that Ganon laugh at the beginning of the episode. I won't feel complete until I hear it at least once in an upcoming cast.

 

Edit: Actually, thinking about it more, a Chris Remo Ganon laugh/double dribble song arrangement would be pretty sweet too.

 

:waluigi:

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Really fucking bummed that I didn't hear "double dribble" after that Ganon laugh at the beginning of the episode.

Shameless self promotion, but relevant here so here's two of my past thumbs things again:

 

 

post-26597-0-32661400-1406920608_thumb.gif

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Shameless self promotion, but relevant here so here's two of my past thumbs things again:

 

 

attachicon.gifdd.gif

Man, I forgot how nice that pixel art Steve face was.

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Really fucking bummed that I didn't hear "double dribble" after that Ganon laugh at the beginning of the episode. I won't feel complete until I hear it at least once in an upcoming cast.

 

I was amused because they immediately started talking about pig noises, when the Ganon Laugh is itself a pig noise.

 

Also, I get a shout-out in this episode and I have yet to upload it weeks later. Cool job, me.

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