Binding of Isaac: Rebirth

[Trip Hazard]

A good read, particularly with regards to the music and the vector vs. raster images. For myself, I'd put something like 30 hours into the original BoI, not a long time I know, and mostly enjoyed what I'd played. Some runs will always be a slog, that's part and parcel of the game. I wish it weren't but...

 

When Rebirth came out I jumped on it and played for 50 hours, and then never went back. My issues with the game are pretty fundamental, I've realised. I think, in general, a run takes too long to complete, there's too much backtracking if you want to "game the system" (arcades, d6/20 etc.), too many bullet-sponge bosses which try your patience more than your skill...

 

Skill. There's a word which I think gets to the crux of it. I think success in Isaac often hinges more on your pre-existing knowledge than on your skill. It could be argued that this levels the playing field somewhat: victory can be achieved without nimble fingers and even the less dexterous players are able to find success. For me, because the moving and shooting mechanics are extremely simple - I'd kill for 8-way shot - the player hits a plateau in terms of their skill quite quickly, and from there it's all knowledge. Knowing how best to proceed, and having the patience to carry out that plan. 

[Problem Machine]

I think the biggest flaw of the fundamental game design of Isaac is that how enjoyable it is depends completely on the items you find. It's not really a problem that your run can get weaker or stronger based on items, but having it so that you NEED to find something interesting or it becomes a chore is not great. Some of the better designed characters have ways to be interesting regardless of what items you find, but they're kind of in the minority.

 

Anyway 80 hours is a good run. To be fair, I don't think the original game was really intended to be played for hundreds of hours, so it turning into that kind of game probably also warped the design priorities of the remake.

[mikemariano]

Thanks for the article! These are all fair points, especially the music, which I listened to for my first Rebirth run and shut off.  I still get the original Binding of Isaac theme stuck in my head, but find the current music unlistenable.

 

The rules you describe for items are still "the rules," as McMillen described them when describing the type of user mods that might make it into an booster pack update. Gimpy never bothered me because I figured Isaac just happened to find a mask and doesn't know of any other context for it.

 

Runs can definitely take too long, and that's the biggest drawback as updates have come out.  New enemies have multiple stages or lots of health and it's easy for things to become a slog.  The speed was the biggest reason I have been able to put 687 hours into this game and not the original, so I hate that my run times are creeping back up!

[SometingStupid]

13 hours ago, Problem Machine said:

With the benefit of hindsight, I looked at some of the ways I feel Rebirth didn't quite live up to its promise

Read through and I agree with you, Rebirth definitely became less of an experience on account of the musical and visual choices, as a piece of artwork it is diminished. However, in some ways I think it reflects the change in gameplay well, in a lot of ways the game became more gamified, more palatable to a wider audience. The original had a lot of creepiness to it, a sort of atmosphere that almost made it a poetic delve into the mind of Edmund McMillen, Rebirth is more like an arcade game, something that you can keep coming back to for more, something that bystanders will enjoy watching. It's clearly been the more profitable and arguably successful model, and when it is disgusting or creepy it has that same sort of shock value as Cards Against Humanity, something that's funny or just plain gross rather than eerie or chilling.

 

And perhaps that's the right direction to go. It depends where you see the value in the game. As you've seen, I really appreciate the mechanics and depth of the game, the core gameplay loop is something I very much enjoy going through and shedding some of its horror/creepy vibe has had very little effect on me, but a noted effect on sales.

[Bjorn]

On 2/4/2017 at 11:19 PM, Problem Machine said:

With the benefit of hindsight, I looked at some of the ways I feel Rebirth didn't quite live up to its promise

 

I don't disagree with many of your overall conclusions, particularly regarding tone and feel of the game.

 

But I do disagree that the Gimp mask stands out as worth remarking on as being fundamentally out of theme with the original BoI.  Original BoI also had the Cat-o-Nine-Tails.  While it fits with the theme of abused kid, there are already other things in the game that point towards abuse (Wooden Spoon and Belt).  The Cat-o-Nine-Tails stands out for being something from the S&M realm.  Both items to me also exist as meta-references of the masochistic nature of getting deep into something like Isaac or SMB. 

 

The original also has Speed Ball as an item, and multiple references to abortion.  Neither of those fit neatly into the categories you laid out.  Though they do fit in with the abusive and fucked up house that Isaac grew up in.

 

Item bloat in Rebirth and its expansions is something that I think has ended up watering down the flavor of the game.  But I don't think that's because some items failed to maintain the theme of the original, it's just the sheer number of them. 

[Problem Machine]

I think the main difference for me is that these are all things that it makes sense to me that a sheltered kid in a Christian family has heard about, if perhaps with only a vague idea of what they signify, whereas the gimp mask is intensely specific. While the Cat-o-Nine-Tails has some SM connotations, it's also just a straight-up old-timey form of corporal punishment, and quite likely to be discovered by a child on that basis long before the other. All of these references to drugs or abortions seemed muddied in exactly the ways that a kid with no direct experience who hears a lot of fire and brimstone horror stories would interpret them. The gimp mask just doesn't fit into that narrative at all for me.

[atte]

I have been playing the recent (final?!) update, and quite enjoyed the new character, unlike the other secret/special characters, I might even play him just for fun! (and not only for the unlocks). I've been playing since the original Isaac, and it's very interesting to step back and reflect what a truly strange life this game has had.

 

After falling in love with Spelunky and Isaac, I was excitedly expecting a wave of copycats - some would certainly end up being great in their own right? Well, there has been lots of (some very good) roguelites after these games but I still feel the core and soul of Spelunky and Isaac are in many ways unparalleled - and thus even many hundreds of hours later, Spelunky 2 was fantastic news and wouldn't mind getting a BoI 2 someday too.