N1njaSquirrel

Binding of Isaac: Rebirth

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I get what you are saying, in essence, about item effects, which you see as a predetermined factor in the game, vs stuff you see as the result of your actions, but it rubs up against my understanding of the game, as somebody who has learned all the stuff you complain about having to learn, in really weird ways. Like, you're saying you're fine with bosses because those can be overcome with skill, but at the same time item effects that can also be overcome with skill are some sort of weird injustice?

 

I also don't feel like you're how few items have this kind of potential downside instead of just maybe being benign (for instance nothing bosses drop really changes how your tears work so those are generally safe to pick up, if it helps. A speed upgrade isn't really going to do you much good but it's hardly an instant-kill door) or that picking up items isn't technically a necessity. We all do it because it makes the game easier, generally, but if you're so worried about running into an item you don't like, you could just go the hard route and play through the game with base stats. It's possible, and you don't seem to have a problem with fair challenges, so why not play the game that way I guess? Or why not look up what items do in a fraction of the time required to have this long argument?

 

I don't get it, personally. Although, I am pretty into roguelikes, so there's that.

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The most important thing about this whole argument, to me, is that it only takes one (1) run where you get that item to learn that it's something you don't want. And because it's something that [you think] sucks, you'll die very quickly. And runs don't last all that long, unless you're near the end of a chest run, or whatever game, at which point you'll already have learned to avoid that item, or even to pick it up because you've learned what situations it's good in.

 

Like, really, what's the longest run you had ruined by picking up a "bad" item? Half an hour at most, unless you're really slow, right? That's a pretty insignificant amount of time in a video game where when you die you start over, anyway. If it's longer than that, you've probably already beaten Mom enough times to unlock the next area. And at that point, you've developed enough Mechanical Skill at the game to compensate and learn how to adjust for that item.

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Another thought that happened there: has anybody experimented with or done any math on how many items you could potentiall get during a single run? A library plus a couple of batteries meant I got to touch just about every book in the game on that run and put them out of the pool, so I really got a lot of neat stuff once I got to the chest. I guess Guppy's Tail, Contract From Below and a Forget Me Now could really set you up at that stage, or it might even be possible to completely break the game with some sort of Blank Card plus Wheel of Fortune infinite charges setup.

 

It's impossible to potentially pick up every item in a single run. This is because of how the item algorithm works. It seems that there is a pre-defined finite item pool when a run starts, and when you hit the bottom of that item pool, you just get breakfasts. The best way to show this is to constantly use D4. Eventually you'll get no items, instead just changing every item to HP up, as using a D4 counts as diminishing your item pool. This is the lamest thing to occur, as it happened to me in the chest, so I lost all my powers and just was a normal isaac with 10 health. Rubbish!

 

Currently I'm trying to do the suicide king run, it's a fucking ball ache. :(

 

Edit: After reading this whole discussion, it seems that Ninety-Three doesn't like that you have to learn? The game is designed and themed around exploring the unknown. Putting up warning lights before an item will remove any sense of exploration. This game is also designed around repeat runs and learning from them. Knowledge is power, and upon picking up an item that you don't like, you'll learn that that is not an item you want, should you run across it next time. Dieing in Isaac is not a hindrance. If I did walk through a blue door, and I died, I would say 'oh that's what that door does', and next time I run across that door, I could have the Dead Cat, and see what was in the room. It might not be worth it, but a room which kills me for entering must have some sweet loot right?

 

It seems that your main complaint is part of the core design of the game, which is fine. Don't play it if you don't enjoy it. And if you want to know what every item does before picking it up, use this, but it ruins the fun of the game.

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i've blown 2 chest runs two nights in a row trying to "life up" before fighting the end boss.  Run 1 was easily enough damage just was getting greedy...night 2 was light on damage and was way hurt from a bad Cathedral run.  phase 3 cathedral isaac still throws me off with his varied tear shots - i know im decent at this game, but dying like that makes me feel like a day 1 scrub.  

 

 

Also! Friendly reminder - dont forget to replace your "left hand" trinket before getting to the Chest so you dont end up with red chests in the first room - opening up with 2 troll bombs, dead cat, and spiders did not help my low damage problem

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Also! Friendly reminder - dont forget to replace your "left hand" trinket before getting to the Chest so you dont end up with red chests in the first room - opening up with 2 troll bombs, dead cat, and spiders did not help my low damage problem

 

Just in case people don't realize this, you can drop trinkets, pills and cards. I had probably played for 10ish hours before I learned that. With a controller, I think it's holding down left bump for several seconds, not sure what the keyboard key is.

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Just in case people don't realize this, you can drop trinkets, pills and cards. I had probably played for 10ish hours before I learned that. With a controller, I think it's holding down left bump for several seconds, not sure what the keyboard key is.

 

WHAAAAAAAAAAAT

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WHAAAAAAAAAAAT

 

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT

 

Google results - left control key

 

holy smokes, this is a game changer.  I cant wait to play tonight and drop those garbage range down pills that i hold and just keep the Q key off limits

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On the 360 pad, it's the right trigger for a few seconds, but perhaps left bumper works also. I've found cause to use that quite a bit when I'm carrying around dodgy pills and tarot cards, cos of my tendency to use them accidentally during a frantic moment.

 

Just found an item which lowered my range but dramatically upped my tears. It might have been called Number 1? If I'd known it did that I might not have taken it, but I'm glad I did 'cos I found technology shortly afterwards, eliminating my range problem but keeping the firing rate. Very handy. I took a punt on Anti-Grav tears too, when I was in the Chest (not an item I'd normally go for but I was curious how it would synergise), and my firing rate went through the roof. Managed to beat ??? very handily indeed :D

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I mostly learned about the dropping feature because my right trigger has the annoying tendency to freak out and make me drop stuff even when it's not pushed. Very handy outside of that though, for getting rid of trinkets, or carrying cards into a particular room if you want to duplicate them.

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I might have remapped it, that's how I discovered it in the first place.  I decided I wanted to remap something, went into options, and was all like, "What the hell, there's a drop button?"

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Half falling asleep, I played one game before bed.  I got to the

 

Boss Rush for the first time

 

with Isaac tonight, then had a horrible, panicked, one-heart run through almost all of it before dying, physically sweating as I barely stayed alive for twenty-plus minutes.  I had no idea what I was doing for all of it and had to check the wiki to see what the actual rules were and just how close I was to making it mean anything.  It was meaningless, just another negative number on my double-digit streak.

 

I won't sleep well.

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Going into the boss rush by accident is great. I went in with a really beefy Azazel and just wrecked shop. I had no idea what I was going in for, but it was awesome.

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How challenging the boss rush is, for me at least, fluctuates wildly depending on whether I went fast because I got good items and wrecked bosses, or simply wasn't given a lot of room to explore. Since it's all in a single room, temporary buffs like Devil cards are pretty useful for that, and Dark Bum basically breaks the entire fight because of how many hearts tend to be dropped there.

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Speaking of things we hate, it's amazing how upset I get at the spiders in this game. They give me such trouble for how weak an enemy they actually are. Somehow their random skittering always leads to them either perfectly dancing between my shots, or predicting my sidestep and charging straight at where I'm currently moving. Plenty of bosses that I'd sooner fight than face a room full of spiders, particularly early on.

 

They're just the worst.

 

... I've actually beaten this game many times.

 

I actually find the normal enemies, almost across the board, more of a nuisance/challenge than bosses. Bosses behave in general, patterned ways but depending on the floor layout and the enemies present, they can be much, much more erratic.

ESPECIALLY WITH SPIDERS and their damn semi-random movement patterns...

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The most important thing about this whole argument, to me, is that it only takes one (1) run where you get that item to learn that it's something you don't want. And because it's something that [you think] sucks, you'll die very quickly. And runs don't last all that long, unless you're near the end of a chest run, or whatever game, at which point you'll already have learned to avoid that item, or even to pick it up because you've learned what situations it's good in.

 

Like, really, what's the longest run you had ruined by picking up a "bad" item? Half an hour at most, unless you're really slow, right? That's a pretty insignificant amount of time in a video game where when you die you start over, anyway. If it's longer than that, you've probably already beaten Mom enough times to unlock the next area. And at that point, you've developed enough Mechanical Skill at the game to compensate and learn how to adjust for that item.

 

I must have a really bad memory. The thing that bothered me about BoI wasn't the random item effects, but the fact that I couldn't look in-game to find out what an item that I already had once does. All the tarot cards, in particular, mushed together in my mind.

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I finally beat Satan—not for real, only in the Darkness Falls challenge.

 

There were no red hearts in Sheol, but luckily I picked up Guppy's Paw on the first or second stage.  I hate Guppy items, so I kept my finger far away from the space bar.  I never found another item to take the Paw's place.

 

But by the end of the game I had half a red heart and six empty hearts, so it was easy to say "give me those soul hearts, Guppy!"

 

And then Satan died.

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An expansion is on it's way sometime this year, with new modes, items, bosses etc. This is good news to me as I put the game down after repeatedly beating my head against the wall trying to finish everything with that character and I'd like to have new things to find and enjoy within the game again.  

Also apparently Florian Himsl (programmer of the original Isaac) has been playing around with Isaac and is developing an update for it.  

Initial details for both are posted on the Isaac blog: http://bindingofisaac.com/post/110884940374/afterbirth

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I've stopped playing BoI, but my partner is still hooked. I actually have way more fun watching her (or hearing her complaints/screams of joy) than playing myself now.

 

She's gotten pretty good, to the point of reaching

 

the chest

but she hasn't beaten it yet. I'm pretty impressed considering she's never played any other game than Mario Kart (and Rayman Legends).

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I finally beat Satan with Isaac—and turned into Guppy!

 

 

She's gotten pretty good, to the point of reaching

 

Wow, I don't even know what that is.  As far as I think I am (88 hours), I am barely halfway deep into this game.

 


post-8337-0-60124300-1425005862_thumb.png

 

(Because I am bad at it.)

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I have tried to double down on my Isaac progression as of late.  I am picking characters with the intent to unlock their varied end-game items and have done pretty good as of late

 

Finally opened up the negative 2 days ago and cleared the lamb tonight.  I was doing so much damage that I didn't need to know a whole lot about the fight which is fine, it'll be much harder on a starved run in the future

 

 

i am up to 92 hrs (although i suspect several of those are paused when in a dota match) and hit the right combo today for golden god which is nice!  

 

post-33948-0-73661700-1425008753.png

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Yeah, I've become a bit bored of BoI now too. 

 

Although in a mere 127 hours, I did unlock 157 achievements. I'm so close to platinum too, I only need SMB and all the extra babies.

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So BoI:R is coming to Xbox One, new 3DS and Wii U, with some amazing deliberate asinine changes to the Nintendo versions that I had to check multiple sources on before I was sure it wasn't just an April Fool's joke. What really interested me about that update, though, was the accompanying crossed-off note on the bottom. I've always been kind of on the fence about Binding of Issac. The gameplay is pretty fun, but it was always pretty ambiguous whether the themes it chose to deal with were picked because there was actual commentary to be made or if they were just trying to be deliberately offensive. Seeing the note and how badly it smacks of "SJWs takin' away our games" leads me to believe it's probably the latter and, if that's the case, very likely not really worth my time.

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Man, that note really is exactly what you say, isn't it. That's a shame.

 

He's definitely done a lot of interviews where he talks about how it's a pretty personal game and it's not just offensive to be offensive, but I suppose he could've been bullshitting the whole time. I dunno. I'm not the kind of person who cares all that much, anyway, so I never bothered to really think about it. I play the game 'cause it's super fun. But yeah... I dunno!

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