Binding of Isaac: Rebirth

[Problem Machine]

Wow Krampus's Head got kinda fucked. That seems a bit overkill.

And, honestly, I'm pretty sure Dark Bum is still going to be top-tier. Anything that takes something useless, as red hearts are on ~30-40% of runs, and makes it useful, is guaranteed to be a great item.

[Bjorn]

Krampus' Head does seem a bit of overkill.  It was, what, a 3 room charge?  I think making it a 4 would have softened it up plenty.  Or lower its drop rate so it's more rare.  I'd honestly rather see Lump of Coal anyways, as its always useful and the vast majority of the time the Head drops, I already have a Use item I want to keep. 

[Undeadpool]

New patch, notes here (along with the requisite cheers and tears).

Hard mode just got a bunch better, with normal bomb/key drops being enabled.  I've spent a bunch of time in Hard (have been going for every boss on every character), and by far the key drought is the worst.  It's very, very rare that I haven't had to skip multiple rooms and chests in a Hard run. 

 

Poor Dark Bum got a big nerf.  No longer guaranteed soul hearts, can also spawn spiders. 

 

A whole bunch of exploits got fixed as well. 

It is REAL funny reading the comments on those patchnotes. They go from positive, to some complaining, to people FROTHING AT THE MOUTH over how much Edmund "gets off" on artificial difficulty for not re-kajiggering enemies that damage you by appearing/burrowing on you so they don't do that. Even though that, clearly, would be incredibly difficult because of the fact that your character can MOVE.

 

Now I'm no ultra-elite player, I'm not even that good, but I've had that happen...maaaaaaybe thrice in 60+ hours of gameplay??

 

Also in all my hours of the original on PC, I never realized that Samson's bloodlust is for the entire floor and not just as long as he has low HP. He is officially my favorite now.

[Bjorn]

Also in all my hours of the original on PC, I never realized that Samson's bloodlust is for the entire floor and not just as long as he has low HP. He is officially my favorite now.

 

Samson's bloodlust was totally redone.  In the original game, it boosted damage per enemy killed for a single room.  Making it godly against bosses that spawned a bunch of trash, and pointless against solo bosses.  Now, it boosts your damage each time you get hit, but for the entire floor.  I think it caps at being hit 6 times. 

[Problem Machine]

It basically makes him monstrous on any floor with an arcade or health beggar

[Synnah]

I showed my five-year-old niece this game (unwisely?).  An hour after we stopped, she said, "Let's play the baby in the dungeon game again."

 

Though she didn't like that the toothpicks cause Isaac's tears to turn bloody.

 

My 3-year-old nephew is kind of obsessed with the game; he hasn't played it, but I gave my sister a copy of the soundtrack, and he saw the album art and was really into it. I think there's something about the cartoon gore/horror that really appeals to children. I might sit him down in front of Rebirth over Christmas, see what he makes of it.

 

Seeing you guys talking about the late game makes me realise how little of it I've actually seen. I put most of my time into vanilla Isaac, and only played Wrath of the Lamb briefly, so I've got all of that content to explore on top of the Rebirth additions. I've been through Sheol a couple of times (Although I think I only beat Satan once, when I had Money = Power; with about 60 coins, I was one-shotting the late-game bosses, and killed Satan in two or three hits). I've never seen the Cathedral, though; haven't even seen that many Angel rooms. The other stuff that you've mentioned just sounds made-up to me! I really need to put some actual time into it and start getting more completions under my belt.

[Bjorn]

I haven't played the new patch yet, but apparently there are reports that you can no longer bomb into or out of special rooms (treasure, shop, curse). It's unknown if it's a bug or intentional change. There was a change made to how Secret rooms are generated that could have bugged something.

Also, if you have any interest in attempting a run with the super secret character, apparently there is currently a glitch that you can exploit to use seeded runs and still get unlocks. It's detailed in this thread. Given how hard the secret character is, even starting with a big advantage is far from guaranteeing a run.

[Problem Machine]

I gave him a couple of tries today and I'm kind of thinking, like... no? I don't think I'm prepared to sink an hour of work into a run that can easily be lost by a tiny mistake. I guess that's kind of like Spelunky, but the kinds of threats that cost you runs tend to be rather more slow-moving and/or predictable in that one.

[Bjorn]

I used Cheat Engine to spawn a dozen items at the start of a run.  I don't care about legitimately making it, but wanted the unlocked items in my drop pools.  I'd say its worth doing that.  I still haven't seen the final item, but the other four items are all interesting.  Three of them are quite unique in what they do. 

[Problem Machine]

I wrote up some miscellaneous thoughts about the game.

[Bjorn]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! Modders are well on their way to making it full co-op, with two Isaacs instead of a baby.

We played a fair amount in co-op, but ultimately the baby just ends up really underpowered in later floors compared to Isaac, and it becomes an increasingly frustrating experience. And once you hit the territory where enemies do full heart damage, it means the Baby dies and despawns from single hit, increasing frustration.

Even if it breaks the game and makes it quite a bit easier, I don't care. This just looks like to much fun not to play around with. Though the modder said that in testing, difficulty didn't feel significantly different, as the total number of items stays the same, you're just splitting them between two characters. So you'll have half the number of items you normally would be late levels.

[Undeadpool]

Just got into the Cathedral for the first time, though it seemed to happen on a random trigger as I haven't even unlocked Sheol. That final boss at the end of it is nothin' to screw with. Wish I hadn't burnt all my regular hearts into the Soul variety in the Mom's Heart battle...

 

I'm finding that if I use Samson, I almost always make it to Mom's Heart and beat it more often than not. Probably Azazel is 2nd place with Magdalene 3rd and then a hodgepodge after that. Just unlocked "???" and beyond the challenge of playing as him, I do NOT get the appeal of him.

 

Also: I get that luck is visible, but the ticks in all the stats don't actually seem to correspond 1:1 to increases/decreases as I have ZERO luck with Lazarus and a TON of luck with Isaac, despite them having the same stats.

 

Also really, REALLY getting into the "metaplot" and implications this time around. Is there any kind of database of confirmed plot stuff, or is it 100% headcanon and speculation?

[Bjorn]

??? has no advantages, but there's a terrific reason to play him. One of the best items in the game is unlocked through one of his victories. If you find you just cannot play him, there is a workaround. The Ankh will turn you into ???, and any bosses you beat after that will count as ???. So on any run where you find the Ankh, you can just plan on leaving any soul hearts laying on the ground during a level, let yourself die before the boss, go vacuum up those soul hearts and then fight the boss. I find playing him in Rebirth is much, much, much easier than playing him in original though.

Each tick represents 2 points (so items have to raise a stat 2 points before it's visible on your stat screen). Lazarus actually starts with a -1 luck, but it still shows one hash mark! Which is why you have terrible luck. Several characters start with zero luck, and it goes up from there. However Lazarus gets a +1 to all stats when he's reborn, so his luck equals most other characters after death. On average, he starts weaker than most other characters until he dies, and then he's slightly stronger than all other characters after resurrection.

[Trip Hazard]

Been playing this for 15 hours now, and still find that about 50% of my runs end in a slow, drudging defeat due to not finding any damage up items.

 

Will I unlock more of these, eventually? The only decent ones I can think of that I've used so far are Brimstone and Polyphemus.

[Problem Machine]

Generally the best way to get enough damage is by getting deals with the devil, and those tend to open up if you can do a floor without taking damage, so it's a bit of a positive feedback loop. D6 also helps a lot, once you unlock that.

[Undeadpool]

??? has no advantages, but there's a terrific reason to play him. One of the best items in the game is unlocked through one of his victories. If you find you just cannot play him, there is a workaround. The Ankh will turn you into ???, and any bosses you beat after that will count as ???. So on any run where you find the Ankh, you can just plan on leaving any soul hearts laying on the ground during a level, let yourself die before the boss, go vacuum up those soul hearts and then fight the boss. I find playing him in Rebirth is much, much, much easier than playing him in original though.

Each tick represents 2 points (so items have to raise a stat 2 points before it's visible on your stat screen). Lazarus actually starts with a -1 luck, but it still shows one hash mark! Which is why you have terrible luck. Several characters start with zero luck, and it goes up from there. However Lazarus gets a +1 to all stats when he's reborn, so his luck equals most other characters after death. On average, he starts weaker than most other characters until he dies, and then he's slightly stronger than all other characters after resurrection.

This is all fantastic to learn/know!

 

Been playing this for 15 hours now, and still find that about 50% of my runs end in a slow, drudging defeat due to not finding any damage up items.

 

Will I unlock more of these, eventually? The only decent ones I can think of that I've used so far are Brimstone and Polyphemus.

The way I made my way through the initial slog wasn't to go for a full-on victory, but to go for character unlocks. Try and get those "No heart pickups/no damage for the first two floors" unlocks and those will, at the very least, unlock more different ways to play.

[Trip Hazard]

I swear I've done the "no damage for two floors" one with Azazel several times, but it has not unlocked. Perhaps it's because I'm picking up soul hearts along the way? Hmmm.

 

Had a really fun, interesting run (sadly, still ended in defeat) with Azazel just now. Rerolled my stuff on a dice room showing a one, and ended up with a weird stationary vorted when I fired, out of which my brimshot would come. If enemies went into the swirl, they would take a lot of damage, and the shot itself was quite damaging. I then later got a magnetic tears pickup, so the vortex was now sucking enemies into itself. Made Boss Rush a piece of cake. However, there are several enemies in the womb that are immunte to it, like the eyes and the rolling brain thingies, and they chipped away at me.

 

Was good tho. Got two unlocks, as well.
 

Edit: Yeah, for Eve it quite clearly says do not pick up hearts for two levels. My brain don't work quite right.

[Undeadpool]

I swear I've done the "no damage for two floors" one with Azazel several times, but it has not unlocked. Perhaps it's because I'm picking up soul hearts along the way? Hmmm.

 

Had a really fun, interesting run (sadly, still ended in defeat) with Azazel just now. Rerolled my stuff on a dice room showing a one, and ended up with a weird stationary vorted when I fired, out of which my brimshot would come. If enemies went into the swirl, they would take a lot of damage, and the shot itself was quite damaging. I then later got a magnetic tears pickup, so the vortex was now sucking enemies into itself. Made Boss Rush a piece of cake. However, there are several enemies in the womb that are immunte to it, like the eyes and the rolling brain thingies, and they chipped away at me.

 

Was good tho. Got two unlocks, as well.

 

Edit: Yeah, for Eve it quite clearly says do not pick up hearts for two levels. My brain don't work quite right.

But you unlocked Samson, right? Cause I unlocked him with Azazel actually by accident! I both love and hate playing as him since he plays SOOO different, but SOOO many pickups you get don't do crap-all for him (every time I get a range booster, it grinds my teeth down just a little more).

[Problem Machine]

Had a really fun, interesting run (sadly, still ended in defeat) with Azazel just now. Rerolled my stuff on a dice room showing a one, and ended up with a weird stationary vorted when I fired, out of which my brimshot would come. If enemies went into the swirl, they would take a lot of damage, and the shot itself was quite damaging. I then later got a magnetic tears pickup, so the vortex was now sucking enemies into itself. Made Boss Rush a piece of cake. However, there are several enemies in the womb that are immunte to it, like the eyes and the rolling brain thingies, and they chipped away at me.

That's Brimstone + Anti-Gravity tears. It's a pretty powerful effect, particularly because it means that that brimstone shot no longer cancels when you charge another, so it lets you fire brimstone a lot more often. Enemies shouldn't be immune to damage, though, so that's weird -- unless you just mean immune to the magnetic tears effect, in which case yeah rooted enemies aren't moved by it. You did manage to find one of the few item combos where magnetic tears are more helpful than dangerous, though, so congrats on that.

 

[Trip Hazard]

Aye, just immune to the magnet effect.

 

Are you guaranteed a deal with the devil if you don't take damage? Cos I cleared a floor with ??? just now and didn't get one, even though I was very mindful of not taking any damage at all.

[N1njaSquirrel]

Aye, just immune to the magnet effect.

 

Are you guaranteed a deal with the devil if you don't take damage? Cos I cleared a floor with ??? just now and didn't get one, even though I was very mindful of not taking any damage at all.

 

I believe there is a bug on Basement 1 which means you're not guaranteed to get a devil room. There are some items that do guarantee a devil deal room on that floor (i.e. goat's head), but means that you won't get a faith room. If you finished a floor without taking red damage and you haven't got a devil room, it's probably because your faith isn't high enough to get a faith room.

[Problem Machine]

I don't think it's a bug, it's always been that way. You can force a devil deal on the first floor with a Joker (same for cathedral/Sheol which also normally can't have one) but I don't think goat head works.

Anyway, it's not 100% if you got one on the floor before, but on basement 2 it's almost guaranteed if you don't take damage, and nearly so if you just don't take red heart damage.

Also, goat head doesn't affect whether you get devil/angel rooms, it's just that the most common way to get it is by buying it from the devil which sets a devil room precedent.

[Bjorn]

Yeah, you cannot get a Devil Room on the first floor without a Joker/Red Chest. Completely intentional. The Goat Head does affect Devil Room chance, I think. It raises your evil some, which makes Devil Rooms slightly more likely to appear than Angel Rooms. But you can still get an Angel Room.

[Trip Hazard]

Cool, good to know. I'd noticed that I've never had one on the first floor. Is there a way to check your faith/evil, or are they always hidden?

[Bjorn]

Hidden, but there's only a few items that affect them, so it's pretty easy to know if you've picked some of either up.

Actually, I just did a quick search, and it looks like it's still unknown what exactly Faith/Evil/Sin do. Some people argue that they only affect the likelihood of Soul vs Sin hearts dropping.