Dune

[Argobot]

About a month ago I read Dune for the first time. I am not one who generally enjoys sci-fi or fantasy writing, but I absolutely loved this book. Terms like "worldbuilding" are overused but Herbert does such a fantastic job establishing his universe without bombarding the reader with lengthy exposition. Everything that you need to know comes through naturally and requires attention and inference. My favorite example is the hints that are given for why there are no advanced AI systems in this universe. Nothing is explicitly stated, but it's so organically presented in the narrative that it doesn't take much to figure out some of those specific details. 

 

After I finished Dune I bought the next book in the series and fully plan on reading as much of the Frank Herbert Dune books as possible.

[TychoCelchuuu]

I appreciate all the weird stuff in the book but Herbert's writing makes me sort of yawny.

[Twig]

Warning: most people find that the Dune books grow worse and worse as the series progresses.

I liked the first book when I read it many years ago! I feel like I read a couple more at some point, but I can't remember them.

[Argobot]

Everything that I've heard about the later books makes me interested in reading them just to see where Herbert takes the story. The writing is straightforward enough that I feel like I could knock out the next 5 in short period.

[Roderick]

There are only six of them and each has a different vibe whilst set in the same universe. I voraciously read them all. It's been a while, but I recall being absolutely smitten by the fourth book, God Emperor of Dune. But that might be my predisposition for arcane ruminations on the divine and the immortal speaking.

[Nappi]

I have been meaning to read Dune for the longest time but have never gotten around to it for some reason*. I was going to tackle either Stanislaw Lem's The Invincible or His Master's Voice once I'm done with George Smiley, but Dune might get prioritized in my science fiction queue now. 

 

I know barely nothing about Dune — except that it has dunes, worms, and spice — which is quite exciting. How much does Jodorowsky's Dune documentary spoil the novel's plot? I have been looking forward to watching it for some time now, and I don't know if I want to wait until I am done with the book.

 

 

* Actually, I know the reason. It is because I have been hoping to find an edition with really elegant — or alternatively, incredibly tacky — cover. The editions that are most readily available have really dull art, in my opinion. I am the worst.

[Gormongous]

I know barely nothing about Dune — except that it has dunes, worms, and spice — which is quite exciting. How much does Jodorowsky's Dune documentary spoil the novel's plot? I have been looking forward to watching it for some time now, and I don't know if I want to wait until I am done with the book.

 

It spoils it none at all. Jodorowsky never read Dune and at the point of filming is weirdly proud of it. In fact, I think the only person who actually read Dune and was part of the production was Amanda Lear.

 

I also tend to like brilliantly unfinished works, so the incredible conclusion toward which Herbert was clearly building in his planned nine-or-so books makes everything after Children of Dune interesting for different reasons.

[Nappi]

It spoils it none at all. Jodorowsky never read Dune and at the point of filming is weirdly proud of it. In fact, I think the only person who actually read Dune and was part of the production was Amanda Lear.

 

Haha... what ?

 

Good to know. Even more interested in the documentary now.

[Trip Hazard]

Never read any of the sequels (mate of mine said they were pants compared to Dune) but I finished reading Dune about a month ago and I absolutely loved it. It's a real tome, takes a while to build up speed, but it is extremely well written and exciting and just GREAT. Totally agree with Argobot about how the "world-building" is so incredible. There's a whole chapter at the end devoted to the ecology of the planet, and it's just so, so good. 

[Roderick]

It kills me that Herbert couldn't finish his work. Book six ends with this incredibly bizarre thing that sets up a massively different premise for the never-written final three books.

[Mangela Lansbury]

Actually, I know the reason. It is because I have been hoping to find an edition with really elegant — or alternatively, incredibly tacky — cover. The editions that are most readily available have really dull art, in my opinion. I am the worst.

 

The French edition has the best cover that I've seen for Dune.

 

 

I found a Chilton edition at a used book store once. I really like old sci-fi book covers, so the cover is right up my alley.

 

[Nappi]

I found a Chilton edition at a used book store once. I really like old sci-fi book covers, so the cover is right up my alley.

 

 

That is gorgeous!

[Schazzwozzer]

Incidentally, I finished listening to Dune just earlier today and can report that there's an excellent edition on Audible. Simon Vance narrates and it's an absolutely terrific performance. So, you know, audiblepodcast.com/wizard and all that _{j/k I don't think that's still a thing anymore}.

 

It was my first time with the book, and it really is a fascinating one. I was a bit surprised to find that, at its core is a somewhat by-the-numbers hero's journey. It's so wildly creative and richly textured though that I was happy to go along for the ride, and to be fair, while there is plenty of power fantasy...

...it becomes increasingly apparent that Paul's future is not ethically certain, and he himself muses near the end that he's unable to change the overarching movement of history (referring to the Bene Gessarit breeding program or something like that). The inclusion of those themes were pretty important to me, actually—a reminder that this is a universe that is indifferent to the desires of any one person. I might feel a lot more cynical about the book without them.

 

The best part is indeed the worldbuilding though. Perhaps I just don't read enough good sci-fi, but realizing that this is a setting where...

...humanity had reached our foreseeable technological horizon (as in us, here, in modern day), greatly exceeded it, and then kind of regressed to a galactic aristocracy with Great Houses, guilds, and no computers was a lot of fun. As mentioned, this is all communicated with sly passing references to things like Mentats, the Landsraad, and the O.C. Bible

and it was very gratifying to slowly piece all of this together and build a mental model for what the hell was going on with this setting. No wonder it's inspired so many outlandish adaptations over the years.

 

I'm unsure if I'll read any more of the series though, just because I dislike big time commitments. I'll be interested to see what others who are just now reading the series think though.

[Ben X]

Simon Vance narrates

 

 The guy who played Town Hall Door Guard and Arresting Badger Guard in Kings Quest VII: The Princeless Bride?!

[Ucantalas]

I read Dune back in highschool, it was fantastic. Such great sci-fi.

I then read Dune Messiah, and made it part of the way through Children of Dune before I moved and had to leave my mom's copy of the book with, well, my mom.

 

I found a Chilton edition at a used book store once. I really like old sci-fi book covers, so the cover is right up my alley.

 

That was the cover of the copy my mom has, such a nice cover, something about it just captures my imagination without forcing too much of the world into it, if that makes sense.

[BenLuke]

Dune has this exact mix of sci-fi, weird mysticism, history and other elements thrown together without feeling forced or inane (Maybe a little datedly 70's, I guess.). I can't think of many other books with as a strong a sense of place and culture, especially compared to a lot science fiction where the future is either mostly just modern society or an utopian/dystopian commentary on modern society. 

 

Are the sequels actually written by Frank Herbert actually worth delving into? The stuff written after his death is infamously terrible but a lot of seem seem kind of down on earlier stuff too. . .

[Argobot]

I read Dune partly because I watched that documentary and partially because I was told that the sequels take the concept of a Messiah character in an unusual direction for this kind of genre story. I wouldn't be surprised if the sequels aren't as good as the first book, but I also wouldn't be surprised if they are. 

[juv3nal]

There are only six of them and each has a different vibe whilst set in the same universe. I voraciously read them all. It's been a while, but I recall being absolutely smitten by the fourth book, God Emperor of Dune. But that might be my predisposition for arcane ruminations on the divine and the immortal speaking.

 

I've read all of them (aside from the ones done by his son) and conversely I had the worst time with God Emperor.

it's been a while since I've read it so my memory may be pretty shakey, but my snarky half-remembered synopsis of the plot is:

omniscient character sets in motion an infallible (due to omniscience) plan to commit suicide because omniscience is dull.

to which my response is: yup, omniscience is dull when you're reading about it too.

[Gormongous]

I've read all of them (aside from the ones done by his son) and conversely I had the worst time with God Emperor.

it's been a while since I've read it so my memory may be pretty shakey, but my snarky half-remembered synopsis of the plot is:

omniscient character sets in motion an infallible (due to omniscience) plan to commit suicide because omniscience is dull.

to which my response is: yup, omniscience is dull when you're reading about it too.

 

Well, not quite. It's God's plan to kill himself in a way so grandiose, extreme, and complete that it'll force humanity into the next stage of evolution.

 

I'm very fond of Dune Messiah and Children of Dune. I don't think they deserve any of the dismissal they're seeing in this thread. God Emperor of Dune is much more challenging but still full of the weird and interesting ideas that make Herbert's writing so great. The last two are kind of going off and doing their own thing, but the promise there is still very real, like Rodi said.

[mikemariano]

I'm a massive fan of Dune: The Film Everyone Else Hates.  I finally read the novel last year and thought the most interesting thing the film left out was:

 

Paul's visions of The Fremen rampaging across the universe, whether under Paul's command or avenging their fallen leader after his death.  Revolution is coming to the universe and Paul can decide to guide it, but he can't prevent it.

 

Wikipedia descriptions suggest that the following books talk about "the path" more than they build on it.  Instead we get shapeshifters and clones?  I don't really find that interesting.  But then, I didn't think I'd find yet another hero's journey story interesting but Herbert and Lynch are both weird enough to make it play out really well.

[Twig]

I thought people generally liked that movie!

[Gormongous]

I thought people generally liked that movie!

 

It's deeply disliked, except as fan camp. Lynch himself pulled an Alan Smithee in some cuts, though I'm not sure why not all.

[Twig]

Shows what I know, I guess.

[RubixsQube]

Oh, Dune. What a good topic! I'm glad to read everyone's neat, informed opinions about something I hold so dear. Idle Thumbs has the best readers.

 

I read and re-read and re-re-read Dune for years, knowing that there were sequels, and knowing that there was no way that the story could continue in any way that would make me as happy as Dune does. In graduate school, a colleague told me I should give them a chance, and it is true, they kind of peter out and move away from what I liked so much about the first book. See, I like my science fiction real hard. Dune is a book that ties in the mysticism and softer aspects with a real elegant narrative about desert ecology and religious jihad, and then the sequels are about...well, they're just bonkers. And for some people, that's what they want! I did not. 

 

But Dune still exists. The world building that's done is light, and never for its own sake. I remember watching a making-of documentary about Star Wars, and George Lucas said that sometimes, because it takes a lot of work, science fiction films will spend a lot of time showing off their scenery unnecessarily. I feel the same about science fiction novels, and Dune, while it is jam packed with a dense universe of intrigue and capitalism and spice-fueled interstellar travel, that never feels like something that you have to wade through in order to find the human component. How can you not read the early scene with Paul, the Reverend Mother, and the gom jabbar (the high-handed enemy!) and feel the tension and the pain and the fear? And in that scene we see the power and mysticism of the Bene Gesserit better than any staid description. 

 

"You dare suggest a duke's son is an animal?"

 

"Let us say I suggest you may be human."

[Gormongous]

Dune is a book that ties in the mysticism and softer aspects with a real elegant narrative about desert ecology and religious jihad, and then the sequels are about...well, they're just bonkers. And for some people, that's what they want! I did not.

 

I'm quoting this for truth. The amazing thing about Dune is that it was written by someone deeply into the social, cultural, and mystical dimensions of religion in a time when those dimensions were something to be interested in. Nowadays, science fiction is caught up in the culture war throughout the Western world and therefore isn't really interested in anything besides deconstructing it. Comparing that to the earnestness of the Zensunni Fremen and the intensity of the quotes from the Orange-Catholic Bible makes it easy for me to see which I like more.

 

About seven years ago, I made the decision to track down a copy of the Dune Encyclopedia, an in-universe compendium of terms and trivia. It was actually hard to get for less than a lot of money, allegedly because Brian Herbert has discouraged its sale and resale for how it contradicts his later novels. The author, a friend of Frank Herbert, poses as an academic collecting random knowledge following the Scattering, so it retains the same allusiveness (and elusiveness) of the books. He dismisses some entries, ignores others, and gives a very real feel for the information that remains.