Patrick R Posted January 6, 2016 Well, I mean, if you think Twine games are literally the same medium as books your argument makes more sense. I definitely don't agree at all, but it makes more sense. At any rate, I feel the answer to your initial question of "Why do people do this?" is "People don't view Twine as literature." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bidiot Bales Posted January 6, 2016 Of course Twine is literature! Literature is just a word that means (these days) a creative writing. That is all. It has no other connotations. Whether something is good literature is another matter entirely. But nobody should dismiss an entire medium of creative writing as 'not literature'. That's pretentious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick R Posted January 6, 2016 Of course Twine is literature! Literature is just a word that means (these days) a creative writing. That is all. It has no other connotations. Whether something is good literature is another matter entirely. But nobody should dismiss an entire medium of creative writing as 'not literature'. That's pretentious. I'm not dismissing anything. I'm saying I don't think video games are the same medium as written fiction (or literature, which I mean as just that), and I'm saying that I think Twine is the former, not the latter. Moby Dick and Ultra Business Tycoon III are different mediums. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bidiot Bales Posted January 6, 2016 I'm not dismissing anything. I'm saying I don't think video games are the same medium as written fiction (or literature, which I mean as just that), and I'm saying that I think Twine is the former, not the latter. Moby Dick and Ultra Business Tycoon III are different mediums. Moby Dick and Ultra Business Tycoon III are clearly different mediums. I can't argue against that. You are however using two extremes. Moby Dick is a very booky-book, and UBT III is a very Gamey-game. While Moby Dick would not be considered literature if it's origins were in UBT III, if Moby Dick was turned into a more non-linear Twine experience, while still preserving the original text, does it lose it's literature label? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick R Posted January 6, 2016 How does one turn Moby Dick non-linear while still preserving it's original text? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bidiot Bales Posted January 6, 2016 How does one turn Moby Dick non-linear while still preserving it's original text? I don't condone doing this to a classic, but have the original, central narrative as the critical path, and flesh out the world with branching options that all eventually lead back to the central narrative. This is how I write twines a lot of the time, sort of like The Walking Dead game. Your choices have no merit in the scheme of things, and the central narrative is always the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick R Posted January 6, 2016 In my opinion this is not preserving the original text at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bidiot Bales Posted January 6, 2016 Fair enough. I would disagree, as I don't believe that the objective of such an undertaking would be preservation, but rather adaption. Like a book that becomes a film. I do, however, see exactly why you think that. To summarize my feelings on this topic, I see Twine as the androgynous child of books and games. A bit hard to classify, but definitely not dissimilar to either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sno Posted January 6, 2016 They definitely do. That's one of my struggles with Morrowind, because the game is kind of annoying to play when you're weak, but then they give you all these ways to empower yourself and eventually remove all challenge from the game and that's boring too. I was never able to find a good medium where I enjoyed the challenges presented to me. For the same reason I struggle to play Diablo II in permadeath mode (which is my preferred way) when I play offline and can easily revive my characters, I also struggle to enjoy Morrowind the way it is. Maybe the problem is more with Morrowind's mechanics than the broken spell system, because it's essentially just a way of cheating built into the game and then the issue is that the game tempts you to cheat. Yeah, i understand what you're getting at, and Morrowind is definitely so broken that it's hard to draw a line between intended gameplay and systems exploitation. (100% chameleon being permanent and unfailing invisibility that you can stack towards across small and easily made enchantments, for example. It feels really broken, but you're not really exploiting a glitch or anything.) You know, did anybody ever make any kind of major balance overhaul mod for Morrowind? That seems like something somebody should have done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cordeos Posted January 6, 2016 Yeah, i understand what you're getting at, and Morrowind is definitely so broken that it's hard to draw a line between intended gameplay and systems exploitation. (100% chameleon being permanent and unfailing invisibility that you can stack towards across small and easily made enchantments, for example. It feels really broken, but you're not really exploiting a glitch or anything.) You know, did anybody ever make any kind of major balance overhaul mod for Morrowind? That seems like something somebody should have done. Skywind is a mod in development porting the entire game of Morrowind into Skyrim. A lot of the super broken magic systems are missing from Skyrim so theoretically it will be more balanced. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted January 6, 2016 this raises more questions than it answers ): ): ): Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ben X Posted January 6, 2016 How does one turn Moby Dick non-linear while still preserving it's original text? Ahab asks you if you would like another hour-long lecture on the science of whales >You say Yes >You say No And the real bits of the text are maintained! Now ask me how one turns Lord Of The Rings non-linear while still preserving it's original text. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spenny Posted January 6, 2016 And the real bits of the text are maintained! Now ask me how one turns Lord Of The Rings non-linear while still preserving it's original text. Ben, how does one turn Lord Of The Rings non-linear while still preserving it's original text? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jutranjo Posted January 6, 2016 WAT IS GAM ?? What if the word game joins the word pine apple in the forum filter. ********* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
syntheticgerbil Posted January 6, 2016 And the real bits of the text are maintained! Now that you have exhausted all information about whales, Ahab would like to know if you want to spend two more hours learning about the anatomy of a ship >You say Yes >You say No Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Valorian Endymion Posted January 6, 2016 Yeah, i understand what you're getting at, and Morrowind is definitely so broken that it's hard to draw a line between intended gameplay and systems exploitation. (100% chameleon being permanent and unfailing invisibility that you can stack towards across small and easily made enchantments, for example. It feels really broken, but you're not really exploiting a glitch or anything.) You know, did anybody ever make any kind of major balance overhaul mod for Morrowind? That seems like something somebody should have done. There is a few ones on nexus, such as Morrowind Rebirth, but right now I am only using one which overhauls the graphics (I can´t remember the name right now, but is one the top file on nexus) a few other mods nothing big (like my oblivion or skyrim with their 245 mods + plus compilations). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted January 6, 2016 And the real bits of the text are maintained! >>Now that you have exhausted all information about whales, Ahab would like to know if you want to spend two more hours learning about the anatomy of a ship >You say Yes >You say No hahahaha *clicks the like button* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badfinger Posted January 6, 2016 I feel like the Bill Belichick Offseason Simulator is the game that encompasses all the finest aspects of Twine game design and execution. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apelsin Posted January 7, 2016 this raises more questions than it answers ): ): ): (Gam is vulture in some European languages) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperBiasedMan Posted January 7, 2016 NO. Gams cannot be multiple things. Please give the singular objective definition for gam please. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites